How to Tank

by Ceren

Back to Combat Logs.

Unknown2008-06-10 21:30:02
QUOTE(Ixion @ Jun 10 2008, 02:19 PM) 520061
Answers in bold. PS, Ceren was never in trouble unless he already used refresh and d/f.


Thanks for the replies!

QUOTE
Not really, Celest had more people in that engagement and calling for help isn't much use being that it was on Xion, where no one else (meaning demis who could tess there) could hear him
That was my point, Celest had a very clear advantage at the start of the fight, thus it was their's to lose. If no one responded to Thoros' call for help I would have expected them (thoros/ceren) to run, or if they did not the fight would have been a much harder one for them.

QUOTE
He is a demi, moot question. Again hammers were used, so yes very low damage.


Unless Thoros uses different hammers (and I do not know them well enough to know) the few times I have been hit by them in a raid they have hurt, a lot, like 4ish-hits-I-die a lot. I guess I just do not have a good feel for the way health levels and healing scale and how much of an impact it has on survivability. I assume as a Demi yourself when you say "very low damage" you mean by comparison to what could have been done and not as some absolute value? (I would consider very low to be sub 1k combos).
Ceren2008-06-10 21:30:42
QUOTE(Enthralled @ Jun 10 2008, 04:12 PM) 520059
First of all, I would never call a three combo kill anything but lame. Is it your fault that the combat system allows it? No of course not. Should you avoid doing it though? Thats up to you, but if you are able to 3 combo someone to death you should not expect to be praised for your skill.

You are right, to an extent. Anyone should be upset that they died that quickly, but you also have to consider if such a death was preventable. For example, if a Celestine used judge on me as their first move and I didn't web, would I be justified in calling them lame for one shotting me? In Narsrim's case, I windpipe locked him on my second combo, but instead of cleansing and applying health, or even reflecting or running, he shielded. You can guess what happened next: raze/smite down. I agree that the amount of wounding done to robes wearers can be very excessive, but some things are just preventable.
Desitrus2008-06-10 21:33:45
QUOTE(Celina @ Jun 10 2008, 04:05 PM) 520055
This may sound dumb, but I have a rougher time with AL than BC. The stun is just obscenely long. That's just my personal experience, though.

At any rate...I'm not sure if you should be criticizing wind whoring, Desitrus, when you are well known for doing 2500 or so before stun wears off.

Fun log! Suprising how quick Kaervas went down the first time. Narsrim also survived a lot longer than I thought he would, but seeing that he is a her now is still really funny.


crazy.gif

The point is that once you are prone and permanently winded, you have zero defenses and you can do nothing but die. There is no wind immunity. I don't criticize them for it, as the game is (everyone say it together) "Not balanced around group combat". As long as they tow that line, you're going to see things like that. Wind isn't bad 1v1 at all, the way it stacks is nice for the one-off gut hit solo. Four winds? Now you're in the permanent balance loss range. I can double tap with my wounding axe, it's true. I can't do it with my waraxe after the speed nerf, and could only do it with aslaran before.

Demigods have a lot of health. I last a disproportionately long time for having 6400 surged, heh. Regardless, it was an interesting fight. It's true, pinleg doesn't always kill people. Several times I hit his chest trying to hack down on his head, that's just the warrior's curse. It's much more evident against people who can stand up to wounding, as the extra time without attacks allows them to catch up in healing.

Enthralled: Ceren still had his divinefire. At any point he could have just used it and all the work is undone anyway. Kaervas dies the fastest due to robes, so you use that to your advantage to go back to the numbers game.Just like PvP in any mmorpg, there are certain "priority" classes. Monks are one of these, right behind active demesners. PPK is devastating, as you saw. Constant stun/paralysis and big damage once the head hits heavy. Since monk damage is based on wounding, it only makes him get more potent.

For those curious, this is the log of Narsrim VS Ceren that was referenced.

CODE
As Ceren tries to leave, he finds himself entangled in a purple web of
phantasms, screaming and clawing at him, entangling him in their grasp.
5650h, 5775m, 7920e, 10p, 27476w sSixkdb<>-
l
A bend in the Seres.
The bright sun shines down, blanketing you with its life-giving warmth. The
river flows slowly, curving around a dense clump of trees as it turns southeast.
The air is crisp and clear, a slow breeze rustling the leaves of the trees along
the bank. A dragon turtle rests here, an air of majesty on its features.
Ur'Tormentor Ceren Valtyros is here, shrouded. He wields a dwarven battle hammer
in each hand.
You see exits leading southeast and west.
5650h, 5775m, 7920e, 10p, 27476w sSixkdb<>-
You dissolve the shimmering field around Ceren.
5650h, 5775m, 7920e, 10p, 27476w sSikdb<>-
You have recovered equilibrium.
5650h, 5775m, 7920e, 10p, 27476w esSikdb<>-
You must possess balance in order to do that.
5650h, 5775m, 7920e, 10p, 27476w esSikdb<>-
l
The frigid waters drain some of the colour from Ceren's skin.
An enormous wave sweeps over Ceren, knocking him to the ground.
A cloud of jellyfish swarm around Ceren, attacking him with tiny stings.
5650h, 5775m, 7920e, 10p, 27476w esSikdb<>-
A bend in the Seres.
The bright sun shines down, blanketing you with its life-giving warmth. The
river flows slowly, curving around a dense clump of trees as it turns southeast.
The air is crisp and clear, a slow breeze rustling the leaves of the trees along
the bank. A dragon turtle rests here, an air of majesty on its features.
Ur'Tormentor Ceren Valtyros is here, shrouded. He wields a dwarven battle hammer
in each hand.
You see exits leading southeast and west.
5650h, 5775m, 7920e, 10p, 27476w esSikdb<>-
(Disciples of Klangratch): Desitrus (from the Prime Material Plane) says, "MY
OOC CLAN ROXORZ YOU."
5650h, 5775m, 7920e, 10p, 27476w esSikdb<>-
You have recovered balance on all limbs.
5650h, 5775m, 7920e, 10p, 27476w esSixkdb<>-
You stand straight up.
5650h, 5775m, 7920e, 10p, 27476w esSixkdb<>-
You create an illusory phantom and send it stalking after Ceren.
A shadow passes overhead, and Ceren shudders violently.
5650h, 5475m, 7920e, 10p, 27370w sSixkdb<>-
Ceren stands up and stretches his arms out wide.
5650h, 5475m, 7920e, 10p, 27370w sSixkdb<>-
l
Ceren takes a drink from an opal vial.
5650h, 5475m, 7920e, 10p, 27370w sSixkdb<>-
A bend in the Seres.
The bright sun shines down, blanketing you with its life-giving warmth. The
river flows slowly, curving around a dense clump of trees as it turns southeast.
The air is crisp and clear, a slow breeze rustling the leaves of the trees along
the bank. A dragon turtle rests here, an air of majesty on its features.
Ur'Tormentor Ceren Valtyros is here, shrouded. He wields a dwarven battle hammer
in each hand.
You see exits leading southeast and west.
5650h, 5475m, 7920e, 10p, 27370w sSixkdb<>-
With a focused look, Ceren strikes at you with a dwarven battle hammer. You are
cuffed lightly in the side of your face.
You shrug off the effects of the poison.
5179h, 5475m, 7920e, 10p, 27370w sSixkdb<>-
With a focused look, Ceren strikes at you with a dwarven battle hammer. Ceren
crushes your throat, crushing your windpipe.
You shrug off the effects of the poison.
4961h, 5475m, 7920e, 10p, 27370w sSixkdb<>-
You remove 1 myrtle, bringing the total in the Rift to 219.
4961h, 5475m, 7920e, 10p, 27370w sSixkdb<>-
The pipe is full.
4961h, 5475m, 7920e, 10p, 27370w sSixkdb<>-
You take a long drag off your pipe.
The cartilage and nerves in your windpipe heal and your voice returns.
4961h, 5475m, 7920e, 10p, 27370w sSixkdb<>-
You remove 1 arnica, bringing the total in the Rift to 1874.
4961h, 5475m, 7920e, 10p, 27370w sSixkdb<>-
You chew an arnica bud, then spread it on your head.
The plant has no effect.
4961h, 5475m, 7920e, 10p, 27370w sSixkdb<>-
A bend in the Seres.
The bright sun shines down, blanketing you with its life-giving warmth. The
river flows slowly, curving around a dense clump of trees as it turns southeast.
The air is crisp and clear, a slow breeze rustling the leaves of the trees along
the bank. A dragon turtle rests here, an air of majesty on its features.
Ur'Tormentor Ceren Valtyros is here, shrouded. He wields a dwarven battle hammer
in each hand.
You see exits leading southeast and west.
4961h, 5475m, 7920e, 10p, 27370w sSixkdb<>-
You take out some salve and quickly rub it on your skin.
The deep damage in your head partially heals.
4961h, 5475m, 7920e, 10p, 27370w sSixkdb<>-
You read a Scroll of Healing.
You feel an invigorating energy rush through you.
5469h, 6000m, 7920e, 10p, 27370w sSixkdb<>-
You eat a sparkleberry.
You feel your health, mana and ego replenished.
5650h, 6000m, 7920e, 10p, 27370w sSixkdb<>-
You may eat or smoke another herb.
5650h, 6000m, 7920e, 10p, 27370w sSixkdb<>-
Sparkling water splashes up over your body, healing your wounds.
Frothy water swirls at your feet and glowing foam travels up your body.
5650h, 6000m, 7920e, 10p, 27384w sSixkdb<>-
psi super choke ceren
psi id throatlock ceren
psi sub burst ceren
dissolve ceren
With a focused look, Ceren strikes at you with a dwarven battle hammer. Ceren
crushes your throat, crushing your windpipe.
You feel a tightening sensation grow in your lungs.
5404h, 6000m, 7920e, 10p, 27384w sSixkdb<>-
With a focused look, Ceren strikes at you with a dwarven battle hammer. Ceren
crushes your throat, crushing your windpipe.
You notice that your sweat glands have begun to rapidly secrete a foul, oily
substance.
5186h, 6000m, 7920e, 10p, 27384w sSixkdb<>-
You must regain equilibrium first.
5186h, 6000m, 7920e, 10p, 27384w sSixkdb<>-
You must regain equilibrium first.
5186h, 6000m, 7920e, 10p, 27384w sSixkdb<>-
You must regain equilibrium first.
5186h, 6000m, 7920e, 10p, 27384w sSixkdb<>-
Ceren has no aura of protection to dissolve.
5186h, 6000m, 7920e, 10p, 27384w sSixkdb<>-
You have recovered equilibrium.
5186h, 6000m, 7920e, 10p, 27384w esSixkdb<>-
5186h, 6000m, 7920e, 10p, 27384w esSixkdb<>-
You remove 1 myrtle, bringing the total in the Rift to 218.
5186h, 6000m, 7920e, 10p, 27384w esSixkdb<>-
The pipe is full.
5186h, 6000m, 7920e, 10p, 27384w esSixkdb<>-
Your lungs are much too constricted to smoke.
5186h, 6000m, 7920e, 10p, 27384w esSixkdb<>-
5186h, 6000m, 7920e, 10p, 27384w esSixkdb<>-
You remove 1 arnica, bringing the total in the Rift to 1873.
5186h, 6000m, 7920e, 10p, 27384w esSixkdb<>-
You chew an arnica bud, then spread it on your head.
The salve slides off your oily skin.
5186h, 6000m, 7920e, 10p, 27384w esSixkdb<>-
5186h, 6000m, 7920e, 10p, 27384w esSixkdb<>-
Your heart thumps as you gaze at Ceren with love and adoration.
5186h, 6000m, 7920e, 10p, 27384w esSixkdb<>-
REJECT! REJECT! REJECT! Ceren
Sprinkling a phial of celestial holy water, you are suddenly surrounded by
cobalt blue sparks.
5186h, 6000m, 7920e, 10p, 27284w sSixkdb<>-
Ceren razes your magical shield with a dwarven battle hammer.
5186h, 6000m, 7920e, 10p, 27284w sSixkdb<>-
With a heavy overhand stroke, Ceren slams a dwarven battle hammer down upon you.
Your skull is smited with a numbing blow. You briefly realize the spray of gore
and brains that is filling your field of vision belongs to you before you die.
You have been slain by Ceren.
You become visible once more.
You come back into focus as the blur illusion vanishes.
Your illusion of being merian fades away.
You are OUT of the combat free-for-all


Like most of us, he was still in his default stance and covering head. He said he was stance head/parry head 50, so that last hit was like a 3%, but it still shows the 3 balance brainbash.

Edit: Ixion, Thoros was actually using flails. And the log finally works for me. Looks like I lagged out for a really long time actually, Ceren was a 3400 or so without me even touching him.

Edit 2: I guess malicia's curing is paused? At least, before the first death... She doesn't seem to do anything. Not to mention right after switching back from Narsrim you instapipe her. Crazy.
Shamarah2008-06-10 21:51:35
QUOTE(Ashai @ Jun 10 2008, 05:23 PM) 520065
Well, I think that Ceren is a very good combatant. Whatever sort of balance of skill and inherent advanage obviously exists, but it's not right to dismiss someone entirely because of their class. After all, that's a choice too, and so is the decision to invest in whatever arti you have. We should all just bake cookies and be happy.


Ceren is a good fighter. He was good as other classes, and he was good before he was an arti-demi-BC. The thing is, now that he is an arti-demi-BC, you can't tell that he's good anymore through the wall of stun/paralysis spam - it doesn't take any skill to do that at all.
Celina2008-06-10 21:54:44
@Desitrus: I understand. It should be balanced around group combat though pissed.gif


That log scares me

edit: I used to think Ceren was artied. Turns out he's not, unless he bought some very recently.
Desitrus2008-06-10 22:11:47
He's not. I'm checking some things out with the new strength curve and wounding. It is looking like 22-23 str gives more wounding than 10's with 10%'s... ohmy.gif
Ceren2008-06-10 22:14:41
QUOTE(Shamarah @ Jun 10 2008, 04:51 PM) 520076
Ceren is a good fighter. He was good as other classes, and he was good before he was an arti-demi-BC. The thing is, now that he is an arti-demi-BC, you can't tell that he's good anymore through the wall of stun/paralysis spam - it doesn't take any skill to do that at all.

The sad thing is, my weapons don't even have any great runes. Warriors are just that good. It can take skill to fight other warriors or people with good stance/parry/wounds healing, but yeah, most of the time it's just a macro mashing fiesta.
Ceren2008-06-10 22:17:53
QUOTE(Desitrus @ Jun 10 2008, 05:11 PM) 520082
He's not. I'm checking some things out with the new strength curve and wounding. It is looking like 22-23 str gives more wounding than 10's with 10%'s... ohmy.gif

As I understand it, each point of str gives more gain than the last up until 20, when they start giving much less gain than the last. Also, if it helps your calculations, I used puissance before entering Narsrim's room.
Desitrus2008-06-10 22:20:18
QUOTE(ceren @ Jun 10 2008, 05:17 PM) 520084
As I understand it, each point of str gives more gain than the last up until 20, when they start giving much less gain than the last. Also, if it helps your calculations, I used puissance before entering Narsrim's room.


I know, I took that into account. I tested the same set of hits, but I would've been short. Damage: 117 Precision: 486 Speed: 265 with +10% and 18 str. The real issue is armor scaling right now, but we are doing a report on low end robes. They recently lifted the severe diminishing returns on strength after 20, it spikes nicely at 21, IIRC from the racial testing thread.

Edit: You sparkle for 900 and I hate you for it. Also, if it were me, I'd have died way earlier, damned 6400 hp. sad.gif
Catarin2008-06-10 22:43:08
I'm not sure what you're expecting Ceren. It is quite possible and quite likely that many of the responses to your success are prompted by emotions. I know I don't much care when I die as shown by my willingness to do suicidal things on a regular basis. But I DO care when a loss is due more to a mechanical problem or outright attempts to be "lame". Essentially things that there is nothing that can be done in order to prevent or stop it. This crazy wind stacking balance loss falls into that category.

Of course it will be used as it's very good. You can shut down someone's offense while continuing to deal out the same amount of damage unlike with things like pin leg where if you keep someone pinned your offense is also shut down. But I do not have to "respect" your using it any more than anyone should "respect" blademasters for pretty much being one trick ponies in group combat.

It's just a fact that BC specced warriors that succeed aren't going to get the same "props" that other specs that succeed will. BC is far easier to be good with than the other specs. You were saying earlier how easy it was to take down any but other warriors. As a BM, I can tell you it's just not quite that easy for us one on one heh. If you want to see the difference, try a different spec.

Fact is you utilized an extremely strong tactic to even up the odds to be more in your favor. It, along with general disorganization on your opponents' part, worked. Your goal is to win. Does it really matter if people applaud how you do it?

P.S. If you're taking the general comments about it being summer so Celest being less active (which happens pretty much every year) as a personal insult to you, you are probably being too sensitive. I think there are more people (bigger names anyway) who are in school in Magnagora than in Celest. So for those Mag players summer means a lot more free time to play the game that they haven't been able to spend much time doing during the school year. For those Celestian players it's either the kids are at home more so a lot less time to play or doing the vacation/outside activities thing. It's just a different focus at different times of the year. I don't think anyone was trying to insult you or your achievements.
Malicia2008-06-11 00:33:47
QUOTE(Ixion @ Jun 10 2008, 04:03 PM) 520052
All I really saw was this:

With a flourish, Malicia draws a exquisitely crafted draconic broadsword from an elysian star scabbard.
With a flourish, Malicia draws a exquisitely crafted draconic broadsword from an elysian star scabbard.

Even my former godly swords can't make you good.

Nice job ceren/thoros.. hopefully battles like that will spawn rewards.. if the damn proposal ever gets approved, meh.

Hi Ix. I don't know who lied to you and told you that you were a great combatant, but you're really not. By far. I give credit to Thoros and Ceren, who are good fighters. I find Thoros' switch to BC questionable after a few losses to Geb, but I know he is a good fighter. So is Ceren. BCs are BCs though. It has been considered the most dominant warrior spec for years now. Nothing new there. Secondly, godly swords? Since when is 180/x/180 godly? Those stats are quite attainable and hardly different from the first set. Not my fault Roark refused to re-adjust my precision after the damage cap, though he allowed you, Lazul and a few others to redeposit points into the speed stat. In fact, Lazul issued over it and got his swords adjusted in the same manner as others. I prefer the runed rapiers Melanchton made for me. Don't get mad at me because Athana gave yours to Amaru. If you weren't known for stealing weapons in game, you might have got them back! Wasn't my idea.

Secondly, I was lagged to hell and my pc is just really terrible these days. I lost like 4 million essence reincarnating during a domoth battle. I'm getting a new one soon.

Edit @Ceren: My comment: 'it's summer, people are simply not around, chill out' wasn't meant to distress you. It was targetted at people who start to rant and rave about raids. I don't have anything to prove to you, but it wasn't made to offend. I'm simply aggravated with people who want to complain about things they can't change. Skill imbalances? Sure, flip out about it, but inactivity issues? No way. Get over it, I say. And consider something else. You should hear how often Catarin or I hear things like 'Lol, all you can do is pin. Lol, all you can do is target arms for severnerve.' I feel that BMs are pretty limited, personally. BCs have better range, more yucky stuns, etc... so people complain. But I promise you, I never meant to attack you. Not sure if I complained about BCs much, yesterday. I whined about ghost though. tongue.gif
Ixion2008-06-11 01:17:00
QUOTE(Malicia @ Jun 10 2008, 08:33 PM) 520103
blah blah blah


Actually 180/xx/186, and if they are so bad, why did you greatrune them? Gee, I wonder. My point was simple and I used small words. I'll say it again. Even with those amazing swords one can still be horrible.
Malicia2008-06-11 01:21:35
QUOTE(Ixion @ Jun 10 2008, 08:17 PM) 520123
Actually 180/xx/186, and if they are so bad, why did you greatrune them? Gee, I wonder. My point was simple and I used small words. I'll say it again. Even with those amazing swords one can still be horrible.

I runed them to prevent decay. It made no sense to keep two sets of runed broadswords. My first set was 180/x/178 without runes. Then I added stat and elementals. Yours were 180/x/186. Again, tweaked by Roark. I thought of returning them to spite Amaru, but got a lot of hooplah over it from people who said I could keep them out of principle, because of how much of a great, awesome guy you are. Ahem. You really don't have a leg to stand on. Everyone with sense knows what a terrible combatant you are and how you enjoy jumping noncombatants with damage weapons and running when anyone competent comes to face you. Then you have the -nerve- to laugh and gloat about picking on people who don't involve themselves in combat. If you're a good fighter, we might as well hang it up and quit Lusternia. There's so much irony in your statements. Most would say that you're even worse without the pre-nerfs. I also recall being snubbed by you before you went inactive the last time after asking you to duel me. I'm always up for it after I change computers. The sluggishness these days is maddening.

In short, your arrogance is misplaced. I don't even get why you are as cocky as you seem.

Edit: And sorry to everyone for the Ixion vs Malicia derail! *shuffle*
Krellan2008-06-11 02:07:53
QUOTE(ceren @ Jun 10 2008, 05:14 PM) 520083
The sad thing is, my weapons don't even have any great runes. Warriors are just that good. It can take skill to fight other warriors or people with good stance/parry/wounds healing, but yeah, most of the time it's just a macro mashing fiesta.


I definately agree that warriors are top notch. Of course, there's that whole problem with people trying to exceed standards or overcome changes that were supposed to balance, which led to the whole forging problem we have and how there is this idea now that warriors -must- have specific stats on their weapons. And then, as you've shown without artifacts, there's only so much you can do to change that because then it becomes required to have artifacts to compete in the warrior class (which some people already feel is that way)

You can take an average fighter like Rika and they'll rise to a high threatening level because of demigod and warrior artifacts. Even just demigod and the 'normal' warrior fighting weapons and they'll be very dangerous.

If I were to blame anything at all, i'd blame titan/demigod stat buffs along with racial stats. Warriors are helped the most by an increase in all stats, followed by monks (in general). Why? because they actually utilize these stats a lot, these being constitution, strength, intelligence (for warriors), dexerity (for monks). Actually, bards are even helped just as much as monks now with the latest charisma to damage change. They benefit from intelligence, charisma, and constitution. Druids, mages, wiccans, and guardians for the most part will benefit from constution alone. You may argue that they benefit from intelligence, but it really means so little, when wiccans and guardians will be afflicting and druids and mages will be focused on demesne work as well as afflicting/staying alive.

But it's not just a problem with stat gains. There is terrible unbalance in racial stats. I'm sure everyone has noticed this. It's the problem that all the classes that do not work as physical classes (monks/warriors) are meant to be equilibrium classes. We'll separate these into physical class and magic class (equilibrium users). Every single magic class designated race has one thing in common, low constitution and average to high intelligence and low strength.

Every physical class designated race also shares a common attribute. That is high constutition, average to high strength and or dex, low intelligence. Yes, I do acknowledge faelings as an exception, but since the racial redux, I feel that faelings are the closest way to balance warriors. It's not completely how I think it should be. It would be better systematically only to have warrior races with high strength and low to average constitution. Low con could be compensated by average to high intelligence. I mean, warriors are supposed to be strong. That's really never going to change, especially when there's an entire artifact set specifically designed for physical classes.

I sort of loss my train of thought, but to sum up my basic feelings. I think that constitution should have been reduced for physical races an raised for magic class races. One or the other or both.
Celina2008-06-11 02:28:50
QUOTE(Krellan @ Jun 10 2008, 09:07 PM) 520156
I definately agree that warriors are top notch. Of course, there's that whole problem with people trying to exceed standards or overcome changes that were supposed to balance, which led to the whole forging problem we have and how there is this idea now that warriors -must- have specific stats on their weapons. And then, as you've shown without artifacts, there's only so much you can do to change that because then it becomes required to have artifacts to compete in the warrior class (which some people already feel is that way)

You can take an average fighter like Rika and they'll rise to a high threatening level because of demigod and warrior artifacts. Even just demigod and the 'normal' warrior fighting weapons and they'll be very dangerous.

If I were to blame anything at all, i'd blame titan/demigod stat buffs along with racial stats. Warriors are helped the most by an increase in all stats, followed by monks (in general). Why? because they actually utilize these stats a lot, these being constitution, strength, intelligence (for warriors), dexerity (for monks). Actually, bards are even helped just as much as monks now with the latest charisma to damage change. They benefit from intelligence, charisma, and constitution. Druids, mages, wiccans, and guardians for the most part will benefit from constution alone. You may argue that they benefit from intelligence, but it really means so little, when wiccans and guardians will be afflicting and druids and mages will be focused on demesne work as well as afflicting/staying alive.

But it's not just a problem with stat gains. There is terrible unbalance in racial stats. I'm sure everyone has noticed this. It's the problem that all the classes that do not work as physical classes (monks/warriors) are meant to be equilibrium classes. We'll separate these into physical class and magic class (equilibrium users). Every single magic class designated race has one thing in common, low constitution and average to high intelligence and low strength.

Every physical class designated race also shares a common attribute. That is high constutition, average to high strength and or dex, low intelligence. Yes, I do acknowledge faelings as an exception, but since the racial redux, I feel that faelings are the closest way to balance warriors. It's not completely how I think it should be. It would be better systematically only to have warrior races with high strength and low to average constitution. Low con could be compensated by average to high intelligence. I mean, warriors are supposed to be strong. That's really never going to change, especially when there's an entire artifact set specifically designed for physical classes.

I sort of loss my train of thought, but to sum up my basic feelings. I think that constitution should have been reduced for physical races an raised for magic class races. One or the other or both.


I love you. You explained the problem beautifully. Even high end int is laughable for mages...druid int is remarkably pointless. I have 14 int. I do maybe 400 damage per cudgel to Daedalion. I tested cudgel damage compared to int during the racial overhaul...it's a joke. I don't care what anyone says about the bleedings.
Unknown2008-06-11 02:37:29
QUOTE(Catarin @ Jun 10 2008, 10:43 PM) 520088
It's just a fact that BC specced warriors that succeed aren't going to get the same "props" that other specs that succeed will. BC is far easier to be good with than the other specs. You were saying earlier how easy it was to take down any but other warriors. As a BM, I can tell you it's just not quite that easy for us one on one heh. If you want to see the difference, try a different spec. <--- Against robes, all warrior specs have it easy, be it BM/BC/AL/PB. We all do the same wounding to wounds, which is very high. Against other warriors however I think I can agree Bm is pretty weak in that area.

Unknown2008-06-11 02:39:40
QUOTE(Malicia @ Jun 11 2008, 12:33 AM) 520103
I find Thoros' switch to BC questionable after a few losses to Geb, but I know he is a good fighter.


I went BC cuz I was bored. sad.gif

Had nothing to do with losing to Geb, psh...
Catarin2008-06-11 02:41:40
QUOTE(Celina @ Jun 10 2008, 08:28 PM) 520170
I love you. You explained the problem beautifully. Even high end int is laughable for mages...druid int is remarkably pointless. I have 14 int. I do maybe 400 damage per cudgel to Daedalion. I tested cudgel damage compared to int during the racial overhaul...it's a joke. I don't care what anyone says about the bleedings.


I think I've been in demigod lala land too long since I think of 14 stat in *anything* as low! Maybe I need to play an alt more to get back in touch tongue.gif

@Thoros: Yes against cloth warriors get the same wounding. It's just a question of which specs can best utilize the wounding. It's not hard for even a cloth wearer to make it difficult for a BM to kill them solo. Assuming competent stancing/parrying/health application. Unless you're just going for straight damage and not bothering with any attempt to behead. Or heart pierce I suppose.
Malicia2008-06-11 02:42:01
BM is cool because swords are cool. Otherwise, it just isn't.

Ha, figure that out!
Celina2008-06-11 03:06:33
QUOTE(Catarin @ Jun 10 2008, 09:41 PM) 520177
I think I've been in demigod lala land too long since I think of 14 stat in *anything* as low! Maybe I need to play an alt more to get back in touch tongue.gif

@Thoros: Yes against cloth warriors get the same wounding. It's just a question of which specs can best utilize the wounding. It's not hard for even a cloth wearer to make it difficult for a BM to kill them solo. Assuming competent stancing/parrying/health application. Unless you're just going for straight damage and not bothering with any attempt to behead. Or heart pierce I suppose.


Oh, it's low...but BT don't really have high int options. I even tried cudgel out as a merian for 16 int and I got 506 (for a comparison...i did 352 with 9 int. 7 int difference = 150 damage!) against viscanti, and 759 against an acro monk.

It's just druids don't really have any use for high int because their damage sucks no matter how high it is. Well for hunting, obviously it helps...but non for PVP. Cudgeling warriors is like stabbing with a dull toothpick.

To sum it up...Nerf Warriors. tongue.gif