Why would PB be better than BC against cloth? Besides pinlegg, which you complained has lost its power, why would BM be better than BC against cloth?

Double pinleg while getting others to behead much?

What's weird is that monk ruptures were designed by the admin explicitly such that you can't use other people's ruptures to get high-end affs really fast because they count seperately based on person and applying to one area cures all the ruptures. But as for warriors? Nope.

If you want to claim that a double pinleg is mechanically impossible to get out of given the limitations on pin leg and what it actually does at his point after the nerfs, okay. That's your perogative. Even a quadruple pinleg on the same leg is only going to count as a double. I'll give you two BMs double pinlegging different legs.

In terms of killing effectiveness an argument could be made that impale would be a far better way to go since it actually prones the target and nullifies their parrying/stancing while pinleg does not. But pinleg stops the escape skills (for the most part) so it's used the most.

Obviously I don't see a double pinleg as quite as incapacitating as stripping someone's ability to do anything that requires balance for an indefinite period of time. It's clearly more effective on some people than others and I can see how it would be very annoying for those people.

You still can't stand while pinlegged, right? So it's a slightly harder-to-get version of the same thing.

Blah, I think I'm too late to tack a little word on the druid/mage damage complain train, but with 16 or 17 int (human) AND champ cudgel, I do about 900 damage with 150 bleeding. That doesn't even put a dent in anyone decent (most of whom are demis with a lot of con).

I'm not necessarily trying to say that druids or mages should be able to deal out crazy amounts of damage - obviously what is more practical and probably more acceptable is more con. And not even just for PvP, but I don't think a lot of you are familiar with the (comparative) abomination that is druid (BT at least) bashing.

And if we're making arguments for two person lock ups, a double pin is much better supplemented by an AL or BC going for stun/knockdown rather than another BM doing double pins.

Wind is still a lot more efficient, though.

If someone else knocked the person prone while they were pinlegged, yeah, they would be prone and unable to stand. It's not really the same thing as with this wind stacking both winders are free to continue pounding on the opponent dealing out damage. And the problem with it isn't so much the effect as the stacking of it to be pretty much indefinite.

With the pinlegger, they are pretty much shut down as much as the person they have pinlegged with the only difference being they can rend to get out of it instead of writhing. Not to mention the pinlegger IS proned for the duration of the pinleg.

That's true, but conversely since the pinlegging can be maintained by one person, the other can go for the behead without interruption. If Thoros and Ceren tried that, Narsrim would have gotten out of the winding.

Not so. That's kind of the point. The balance loss is stacking up. One could switch over to the head for a couple of rounds and then switch back to build it up again. Especially true with ectoplasm. Again the problem is the balance loss stacking without apparent cap (and without real penalty to the offense of the winders honestly). Not that a person can hold another person in place while someone else gets a kill on them as that is possible with a large variety of class combinations.

Ahh. The balance loss is stacking enough that even if Thoros and Ceren took a break he'd still be immobilised? I thought it was just about enough to keep him pinned and allowing for natural miss rate.

And ectoplasm is ridiculous. Maybe if it were at least targetted.

Right, it's beyond enough to just keep pinned down. There is less room for error without ectoplasm of course but with it, well, you're toast.

Seriously? I loved bashing as a Druid. I was Hartstone though...

It should be. It shouldn't be hitting the entire room for a mere 3p. 3p, right? I forget.

Oh boy. What you two are addressing is a good example of what happens when I post without eating breakfast. I don't want to dwell on that anymore, and I'm sure you don't either.

By the way, that ghost whine was more comedic than anything. Setting ghosts to 1k health on ghosting, having them stopped by eye sigils, and allowing people with fervour up to attack them like normal are things you can only laugh at.

The toad-ghost idea was Silimaur's! My only suggestions were to not allow ghosts to slip through barriers or avoid insta-kills. Reasonable, imo.

To my knowledge it was 8 power to room cast ecto. I could be completely wrong very easily, but it was more of an assumption.

Pinleg very easily prones cause you have poisons too, Catarin. There's the obvious Mantakaya and then there are other combos which you should know, being the experienced warrior.

I'm 100% certain that room etcoplasm is not 8 power. If so, news to me.