I think lusternia is fine with out the Wytchen guild thank you.

I also dislike how you have to run around collecting corpses/poisons for ecology, so Myrkr's solution with EyePeck would be pretty viable. The problem with EyePeck is that eyes only last about 2 IC months, so would that change once you put it into the doll? Would the doll preserve it for longer? If so, great! Bring on the pain!

Maybe it'd last as long as the doll does.

I agree, the problem is that dreamweaving and runes simply won't be brought up to par with psionics. The admin will never allow it, and honestly I can't see any way to make them that powerful without a total overhaul. Mages can take runes and dreamweaving...they just don't. Well some take dreamweaving but they almost always change. (Melville and Dysolis pop into my head). Instead of psionics...druids get ecology. Which, as you know, is the worse pvp tertiary available to a druid (if not the worst tertiary in the game. It's seriously bad).

I know it'll never happen...but voodoo would be so cool. Maybe available to wiccans too .

I don't like the Voodoo of others IRE games. That's why I didn't call my idea voodoo or anything like that. If anything, it is more like Ushinokokumairi, which is kinda like voodoo, but you do not only use it to harm the living. You could create charms and protections from Oni (demon-like creatures) and other fun stuff. Maybe you could add other Shinto references, since those beliefs are similar to some extent to our Lusternian druidism. Besides, using bodyparts of your target is so passé. We have power! We don't need no stinking hairlocks/ears/eyes!

Also, no tertiary for Wiccans, please. That just doesn't fit at all.

I guess it'd be fine to give druids a druid only tertiary...bards got glamours after all.

Still doubt the admin would ever consider it, but I'm up for anything that let's me contribute when I'm not holding a demesne on the same level Telepaths can contribute.

Druids already have three Tertiaries to choose from, Bards and Monks only have two.

To be fair, Bards unique tertiary kicks the crap out of all 3 Druid tertiaries.

I'm a monk myself and I ain't complaining. Bards are good to go too. Druids ARE lacking on options, tho.

Quantity V Quality

Wow. Luciden would be screwed. As well as half the basin.

*ducks*

And suddenly, tailors and cooks can make condoms!

Yep, bards and monks need more tertiaries first. There are two reasons "quantity vs quality" is not useful. 1, a Shadowdancer with healing is pretty damn good, but most of the "good" is concentrated in the non-healing abilities. 2. If quantity of skillchoices was a reason not to have as much quality on them (or to have more quality if you had less of them), we should be nerfing the heck out of mages and warriors to "balance" them with classes with less options. That's not really how "balancing" works though.

Druid's don't 'lack' tertiaries at all. In fact, they have such a diverse array of them, but the problem is that being a druid altogether is not a class with lots of fun skills. I also don't see four tertiaries being that available for any guild, though perhaps another specialization... maybe for runes or something.

I think that's pretty much not going to happen, but maybe you could try to split ecology (and astrology, and monk psionics) after a new bard and monk spec are added. That would bring everyone except warriors up to the same amount.

Monks maybe, bards err no.

The argument that bards and monks deserve tertiaries first because is not good enough, if the quality(usability and effect on overall ability of players) of their skills is higher than another archetypes then why should additional attention be given simply so they can have three skill sets. if that's what you want, you can take runes.

Monks and bards both, yes.

The argument that monks and bards deserve tertiaries first is absolutely good enough. If your complaint is that druid tertiaries are -imbalanced- in some way by being too weak, take it to your envoy, don't give yourself another option wihch will also need balancing. I heard something about that runes (which is already good for druids, ask them) got rejected for upgrades because it's also a tradeskill of some kind. Dreamweaving is fine for druids too. The only one you consider weak is ecology, and that's great for bashing. It's not like other classes don't have similar choices.

Which is part of the point: druids have a reasonable amount of -choices-. Bards and monks do not. In fact, all the bard guilds are pretty much the same as they only have one skillset that's forcibly different, unlike monks, wiccans/guardians, and druids/mages. Warriors have a tonne of choices anyway so nm them. Honestly, they at least deserve a tertiary that splits down a commune/city divide (or taint/nontaint divide, whatever works.)

You do not answer a problem with weakness by adding more options, you answer a problem of lack of options by adding options and a problem with weakness with envoying.

What do you think the envoys have been trying to do? Ecology is fairly useless, it was good for bashing because you had xp free death and if you wanted you could bring your familiar into your bashing ground to rebirth close by but that's been nerfed.

Dreamweaving is fun but ultimately you are still stuck either in your meld or in dreamform fighting.

Runes, the primarily used skill is 100 lessons in?

We've asked for changes, but all of these changes must be balanced with mages and bards. if a change that would greatly benefit druids would be op for the other is suggested, it would logically be rejected. Hence the desire for a druids only skill.



However the reason why mages choose psionics is because it is a good choice and works well, bards choose glamours because it works well. They could have different choices and would only choose the one that works best.

I'm sorry that druids want an skills that will allow them to actually function outside a forest?

Ecology is not fairly useless. It wasn't good for bashing just because of transmigrate - it was, and is, also good for adding DMP to the druid frailty people complain about, i.e charm. There may be a couple other things too. It's not like smudges are completely useless either.

Dreamweaving is either in a forest or in dreamform, yes. Stating facts about it isn't that much of an indictment. Dreamform isn't worthless, mostly due to void but also deepsleep harrassment isn't terrible. And the whole spying thing is fun at worst and handy utility at best.

Runes gets the best skill early? Fantastic. If drawdown was at adept moon would still be good and in fact it'd be better for novices. Wait, and that's wrong anyway - doublesling is at trans.

You already have limited functionality outside of forest, just not -solo- functionality. Which is an inherent limitation of the class - most wiccans and guardians don't do well without Fae, either. Different skills can have different advantages though - if one skill (hexes) is great for PK and another (astro) for bashing, it's fine for more PKers to pick hexes and bashers to pick astro. Not every tertiary has to be, or even -can- be, good at everything.

Honestly Shiri, if you want another tertiary go and come up with a concept for one. This is actually an interesting idea that would really work for druids and even if nothing comes from it may provide the seed for a future idea.

Also for reference and the newer forum goers, a Voodoo skill had already been suggested when one of the admin were asking for ideas for new skills. I think Estarras response was about focus on other aspects of voodoo rather than the doll. (Voodoo isn't all bad, the doll can be used to harm and heal, it's just popular image shows it as evil)


One thing about the eye peck though, maybe that should just increase your range? Allowing us to tune the doll without a regent gives us range, if you combine it with a regent the decay rate goes to under a day but your effects become global?

EDIT:
@Shiri: you don't need double sling to rad whore