Hey, Serens, want your spirits back? Come kill Mags with us and we'll share.

See, if it wasn't Greleag who suggested it, I would have told whoever the player was that did to not bother with making their attempts to upgrade their skills more fancy than it is. Kind of being more like Malarious, who just outright says all nihilist skills are underpowered.

@Enthralled healing insanity has 3 benefits usable once a day (on a person) at no cost.

1) a portion of insanity is siphoned off from the insane to the healer. Not all insanity siphoned off, gets transfered as some is just lost int the process. Generally, a healer will siphon from 5 or 6 before going slightly neurotic and more befor egoing neurotic.

2) Astral insanity gain is reduced

3) Astral insanity recovery is quickened

While you may not see proof that Darkchant truth is no better than a circlet (600 credits, not 700) and while I can't provide data since I don't have the skill. Basic logic will tell you that the circlet is better than the ability. We'll leave out costs cause each has their own. Instead, we'll look purely at the effects.

Skill: 1) reduces level of insanity, usable once a month. Supposedly 50%.

Circlet: 1) Slows gained rate of insanity by 50%. A normal person will be neurotic after 1 full hour. (generally people reach neurotic at about 30-45 minutes. A circlet user will be slightly neurotic after one hour.

2) Speeds up insanity recovery. You recover from insanity twice as fast as someone without a circlet.

3) constantly active as long as you wear it.

It's very clear by a comparison that the circlet is better. But not that I really paid much attention to the actual arguments. Just trying to clarify things for you.

Thank you Krellan, that was very informative.

I have no doubt that the circlet is better, it had better be for its credit cost, and it is clearly far superior to the dedicated hunter (more than 2 hours in astral a day).

I asked for three numbers though to see exactly how better it was. Let us say for example that the tests were done and normal took 2 hours to recover from 2 hours on astral, Truth took 1.5 hours, and the circlet took 30 min. In that case I could see the argument that Truth cost more than the gain. If instead you saved closer to an hour by using Truth then I think the cost seems more reasonable.

You also can not discount the ability to instantly counter that much insanity at will. This is a huge strategic benefit for the org if used at critical moments during events. How much is that worth? I don't know but it is worth -something-.

Chaos blessing + circlet + Truth could mean you outlast anyone else by a huge margin.

I still think real numbers would help everyone talk about this easier.

Lol

You epic fail this thread. Thats why I damage kill you surged. Its not all skills, its specifics, and mechanical aims in general for them. I dont have to worry bout envoying it anymore though

On the crypt...

-Adroitness should just be +1 room, not give the adroitness skill
-Truth should be a higher %
-Bloodrage is so so.. but could use stacking with other skills (not itself..)
-Mental resists arent all that important to me, but yes it would be nice to see the cure message anytime its shrugged

Thats basically it.

Crypt is mostly flavour skills to me, its not as nice for offense as font is, but on the same note it does have some fairly handy use (shield + heal = win for a construct ). Yep I said it! They may be mild but those can have some nice use in capable hands, since its trueheal without the 20s timer, and a fast eq shield.

Back to ignoring the topic for another 2-3 days

Or it's why we all thought you were absurd, asking for huge upgrades while being unwilling to settle for the minor tweaks that would have likely been enough.

Lich without the construct benifets is basicly vitae + chill touch. Breath contagion requires megalith power and the ectoplasm and contagion immunity is only relevent for a person fighting Magnagora. Someone who's fighting Mag isn't going to be given lichseed. Unless you think chill touch is OP for some reason, I wouldn't say it's 'insanely strong'.

Quick thing though...doesn't the Cacophony UndeadBlues already make Mag constructs available to the undead caused by the song? At least, that's what I come to understand of the Announce about it and any Glom who's undead from the song already benefits from the constructs with the song up.

If that's the case, it's probably a bug/unintended side effect. Glom should not be effected by Mag's contructs.

Why are you worrying about giving lich to other people when there are far better things to discuss about lichdom and the crypt?

Because:
1. It's useful for RP. ICly, alot of Mags think that the taint should be spread to as many people as posible. Ergo, they would want to be able to make non-Mags into liches.

2. Aside from some minor things involving the timers, the crypt is pretty well balanced. Truth is quite good as it is now and realy doesn't need a buff.

I swear I remember an Admin (Morgfyre?) posting that they had initially planned to allow litch for non-mag but some guild combos with that allowed too many death avoidance skills to stack. I can not find the post in question though so perhaps I have just spent too long on astral.

I personally love the idea, I would even want a situation where you could give it to someone against their will if there was some reasonable way to deal with it. The Taint should be spread and undeath seems (to me at least) like one of the most visible signs of it spreading.

Ceren has great points we've been complaining about since the crypt was altered..

1) Adroitness should be a def like nightkiss, where you can only put it up at night but it stays as a def as opposed to being stripped during day. It's a royal pain in the rear.

2) Lichdom mental affliction blocking needs to say which one it blocks.

3) Truth is a trivial bonus at best. It's a very very small aid for a high cost and once per ooc day. If they went for a small bonus, then they got what they intended. I count my lucky stars that I invested in a circlet. Circlet >> all, and circlet+chaos= it's literally impossible for me to hunt long enough to get insane without being bored into QQ'ing.

4) Bloodrage is fine regarding the after midnight part, as it wouldn't be fair to autumn/etc skills unless they got changed as well. (There are a lot of skills like this..)

Yeah... making Gloms undead isn't exactly a great decision even so.

In regards to the adroitness deal, not to say that the idea to change it isn't real good and better than this but..

#regex {^It is now the (\\d+).+? of (\\w+)\\, (\\d+) years after} {adroitness}
#regex {^You think that it is currently night\\-time up above\\.$} {#if (!%iskey(@defences, adroitness)) {adroitness}

etc.

Doesn't have to be just Gloms and they have the option to turn it down if they want. If I can convince someone to go undead as part of a neferious plot to convert them to Magnagora, I should be able to!

say Stop singing that song, or get out of Glomdoring.

(I think I've even gotten to say that once!)

What is that from?

It's from "Glomdoring Members Against Undeadification, First Edition."