If Druids were OP and hit a demi (as a demi) for 2k a pop, that'd be the day I'd dance around in a hula skirt and coconut bra with a fruit (bananas and whatever other fruits) hat.

IG and OOC.

The flavor looks strangely familiar

I wonder...

Congrats! You influenced a skillset.

Too bad the druids are still nerfed.

Slight annoyance personally

The spirits, ancestors and the like from the link Corinthian posted are related to the Hartstones own rp around their ancestors (the flame, the hall, the curse, etc). So I guess now the spiritsingers have it too

It's Seren in general, if not Spiritsingers in particular. Remember that time there were all those storms and the ancestors came back to find a bard and make them do...something?

The storms were part of an event around the flame of the ancestors in the hall. hrm there might have been some storms for the dark spirit event with Grutina 'n that

There was an event where the spirits were only responding to the spirit singers and then some ritual grew the bridges.

The second one is what I was talking about, yeah.

Myeah. The skills are cool and that, it's just that as long as I can remember the hartstone have been the ones who remember the past and called their ancestors for aide, apparently that's what the spiritsingers do... so yeah

I actually tried for a little while when the guild was new (a year and a half ago) to avoid building too much on the "ancestor" part of the spirits, because I didn't want Hartstone to get possessive of the concept and knew they had a prior claim. But we really didn't have any other direction to go, and the whole "keepers of lore" made it hard to avoid it; and Lord Charune, patron at the time, nudged us in that direction even more than our skills already did.

But if anyone can spare one bit of symbolism, Hartstone can. Between all the stuff about the trees themselves, and Hart and the predator/prey and sacrifice stuff that relates to it, and standing stones and all the symbolism that goes with that, and the ancestor spirits, and the dreamscape, Hartstone really has always had more than enough bits of spirituality and symbolism anyway, in my opinion. Maybe too much; I think it made things scattered sometimes. Anyway, they certainly had enough to be able to concede a bit to their younger and needier sibling. And pretty much everything traditionally associated with symbols of neopaganism or nature spirituality was already claimed by someone before we came along. (I've also studiously avoided having us claim any link to dance, despite it being a performing art associated with rhythm, because of the Moondancer's prior claim; and I dare say I've been successful at that.)

I never expected Hartstone to really agree that they could or should spare that element, though, which is why I tried to avoid building too much on it. At one point Kalodan, while he was Heirophant, commented on it IC, saying that Hartstone's claim was more towards the spirits of previous Hartstone, while Spiritsingers were more generally speaking the voices of all of Seren that came before. Hartstone was trying to avoid its previous mistakes, and the Spiritsingers were more generally trying to preserve the lore and wisdom of the past. I was very appreciative of him (particularly given our rocky relationship) being gracious about it and working to give us a little room. He didn't have to do that, he was just being kind and supportive. (I don't think I ever found a way to express that gratitude, unfortunately. It was hard to talk to him at the time.) But even with that, I figured Hartstone would not like our claiming the imagery.

I tried to make Chuchip and the song sparrow our focus for a while to avoid it, but despite doing the prophecy quest approximately a thousand billion times in hopes we'd get some kind of nugget (we were almost-but-not-quite promised one), and lots of other stuff, nothing ever came of that. (I did get a prestige-winning book out of my efforts, though!) In fact, Hifarae Hills nudged Chuchip to a connection with the centaurs -- which Serenguard have something of a claim on, and whose predilection for astrology suggest a connection to the Moondancers (which I don't think anyone ever built on), and who aren't particularly musical anyway.

And everything and everyone else kept seeming to pull us towards the ancestor spirits thing -- and part of me didn't mind because we desperately needed something, even if the something was infringing on someone else a bit. So eventually I gave up trying to avoid it. (I think it was after the event, which I loved loved loved, where the spirits helped us build those bridges, that I gave up resisting entirely.) At least with this we have something, even if it's not quite the synergistic connection of role, skills, and symbolism unified that one gets from a link to the trees itself, or one of the main Great Spirits of a commune.

Anyway, Corinthian, this was in development before you posted that. I was kind of amused at the post when I saw it, in fact.

The predator/prey stuff is Charune clean and simple.

The Hart is what ties it together, The standing stones which are the facets and teachings of the White Hart (The link with seren, the lost unity between all spirits, the time before time, what was, what is and what will be)

To me, the Hartstone are tribal... Part of the Tribal image is the spirit stuff all the things you've described are part of the bigger picture of the White Hart

I think if you dig a bit deeper into the lore, both in-game and out-of-game, you'll find the predator/prey element of Hart to be one of the main facets -- that's what the White Hart represents in Celtic lore, for instance. Of course since Charune created White Hart, the connection holds up even better in Lusternia, but that doesn't mean that it's not part of Hartstone. That's how sacrifice comes into it.

But I'm not saying that there isn't some integration of the symbols. Just that you have so much to work with. I think it's tremendously easy to not realize how much you have, or how much of a difference it makes to have been handed the raw materials for so much stuff with so fundamental a connection to the commune's most basic principles, until you try to work without it. Since we were founded, those in guilds with an abundance of connection have always wondered why we complained so much about having so little, and said we should just make our own -- but those who came over to join us and saw it from our side realized what we could never get the others to see, that there's a huge, huge difference between "make your own out of the bountiful raw materials given to you by history, precedent, and symbolism" and "make your own out of nothing and then expect everyone else to go along with it". It's one of those things where you never know the worth of water until the well runs dry.

The Shofangi can testify to that even more (and probably the other monk guilds) because even if they have more explanation for their founding than we ever did, they're still lagging way behind the bards (especially us, now!) on the support we've gradually gotten over the last year. So I hope they get that attention next (doesn't need to be in the form of skills, in fact that might not work as well for them as for us, but they do need some attention).

This thread has veered awfully far, several times, from the original purpose which impelled me to place it into the Survival Guide section. Mods, feel free to break it into pieces which go into the appropriate fora.

Just have to say the changes look awesome. Makes being a bard or at least Spiritsinger much more interesting to play. Very fitting for the guild name too! Not sure what exact treatment Necroscream got but they looked nice too. I haven't heard anything about Cantors but I'm not really getting my hopes up at this point. I couldn't even get one of our boring death messages changed before when I asked >.> But in any case I don't think we have nearly an interesting history or development as Spiritsingers to start to attempt this and it doesn't look like anyone is going to try and resolve that... which is something I'll have to save for another rant.

Great minds think alike?

Also, if I recall correctly, the Serenguard are also influenced by the whole Ancestry stuff. So now Seren can be divided into Ancestor followers and the Moondancers

I don't remember any ancestor spirits stuff in the Serenguard: it was all Native American influenced tribal warriors with vision quests, plus a smattering of Moon and Stag.

And us.

Oh, nono

Shofangi are not Serenwilderians. They are a franchise of the Kephera in Serenwilde, you silly!


Well, there's the rituals, also the connection to the old Centaurs and the whole trying to prevent another Grutina. It's a complicated issue with them, I guess.

All I've ever realized the Hartstone has is their Stones, Hart (And face it, he isn't as cool as Moon, he's just a collective spirit), maybe some sort of ancestor-Grutina thing. Not much beyond that. More dreamweaving RP would be -hot- for the Mage/Druid guilds, but come on, when's the last time Dreamweaving played a critical role in an event that wasn't it's own introduction?

There was loads of opportunity for Dreamweavers to do something, but it never really worked. The sleeping Vernal? Tried, nope. That one horrific Maeve event where the elemental planes were attacking faethorn? Nope- though, that one was mainly because everyone had given up and sniffed amnesia dust before we bothered to learn what was controlling the elemental lords.

Edit: And when I wasn't Hartstone, I always took RP cues from Kalodan. He seemed to know them the best.

You've seen the hall right? The spiritual flame isn't supposed to be just for show (though seriously, no one ever remembers the syntax to use the drums. beaton damnit beaton )

Dreamweaver specific rp could be interesting, so go develop it for the hartstone *whip* and then the admin can give us somewhere only weavers can go.

Do all three GL's at least remember the Flame syntax?

Also, Hart is way cooler than Moon. Moon is too overdone. And if you don't think HS has a rich roleplay and items just around the GH alone, not including the guild itself, Hart, Charune or Serenwilde as a whole. I do advise you go relearn what the Hartstone is about, what they symbolize and their history.

Hartstone oozes backstory and roleplay, lazies.

EDIT: Let me share a brief overview I recieved a year or so ago.

Prime goal is the protection and sanctity of the Serenwilde, Nature, and the restoration of Nature. The healing of the lands of all unnatural influences. The rehabilitation of, and if that fails the destruction of, said unnatural influences. Inclusive are cities. Also, the prime dictim of the White Hart includes self-sacrifice for the betterment of the whole, the recognition of the cycle of life, and the vanquishing and obliteration of the Dark Spirits of Glomdoring. The White Hart believes the way of Night and Crow are that of shadows, ash and dust - illusions that work at first, but fall short in the long run. The White Hart also teaches us through introspection and an oft lonely struggle, do we reach true power and wisdom. Knowledge is great, but it is untamed and wild. Only through Wisdom can we tame it, and know how and when something is knowledgable, and even useful, but unwise to do or use. As a guild, we adhere to the "ends justifying the means", at least when a militant such as Kalodan is in the lead, as he is right now. If the ends does more good than harm, it is justified. The Hartstone are generally a commune of it's own, where they move as a group with a majority vote. Though it has been noted several times in history that they've had heavy-handed, whip-wielding leaders such as Kalodan.