Lendren2008-07-02 18:33:56
I know that player-proposed skillsets never go anywhere, but Nejii encouraged me about six months ago to develop this idea as a proposed new bard tertiary, and it happened to float to the top of whatever list my personal muse uses, so I wrote it up just to get it out of my head. Who knows, maybe Estarra's a big fan of Escher and Da Vinci.... (Plus it would fit very well with the recent appearance of a few Fourth Circle goddesses, who would make perfect sense to be the ones to introduce this the way Lyreth introduced Dramatics.)
This is intended to be a third choice for tertiary skill for bards. The primary purpose is for it to be different not only in style and theme from the others, but also in what kind of role you play in combat and other activities when you take it. It doesn't completely sacrifice offense in favor of support, but its offense is low-key and mostly focused on team combat.
As bards are currently masters of the performing arts, this skillset is designed to extend their artistry into the fine arts, building on what's in the Arts skillset without supplanting it. (Someone who studies this but not Arts would have to buy a few supplies from their friendly local artist, though.) I just love the idea of incorporating the artistic styles of Escher and Renoir and Pollock and Rothko into the game...
The details (power costs, specific afflictions, etc.) are eminently changeable, and while I'd like to hear criticisms and suggestions about them, I'm primarily interested in comments about the fundamental design and theme, the choices of skills, etc. (Incidentally, I'm still not happy with the name. "Aesthetics" is just the least worst option I've found.)
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AESTHETICS - ARTLIST (Inept 0%)
Syntax: ARTLIST
This ability will show you a list of any works of art you're carrying, and what they depict. It will show whether paintings are hallmarked and what they depict, along with how many months they have left.
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AESTHETICS - TOUCHUPYELLOW (Inept 33%)
Syntax: TOUCHUP- WITH
Adding coats of yellow tint to greatrobes will give them a temporary increase of +10 protection against cutting and blunt damage.
Note on touchups: Any single item can have only a single colour of touchups, and not more than ten coats. Each application uses a single tint and adds two coats. Each coat will work through a single use; it will be used up whenever it takes effect. For instance, a yellow tint touchup will be used up every time the wearer is hit with any attack that depends on the level of protection that the robes provide.
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AESTHETICS - LANDSCAPE (Inept 66%)
Syntax: PAINT HERE WITH HALLMARK
Paint gorgeous landscapes of your favorite locations, and mark the painting with your unique hallmark, which connects the painting to the place it depicts. You'll need a blank canvas and a full palette of paints. (You can also leave out the hallmark, in which case, this produces a mundane painting precisely the same as the equivalent Arts skill.) Sketches cannot be used to create hallmarked paintings.
Many of the skills in this skillset require a painting with your hallmark. These paintings get worn out when they're used, decaying by a specified number of months. Only the original artist can upkeep a hallmarked painting. Destroying a hallmarked painting is considered an attack on the artist (according to Avechna, the Avenger). Note that hallmarked paintings cannot be enchanted, as they already contain their own native magical forces.
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AESTHETICS - GROTESQUERIE (Novice 0%)
Syntax: PAINT GROTESQUERIE
............ EXHIBIT TO
Decay: 2 months
You can produce a painting depicting horrific scenes of unearthly terrors. It requires a canvas and full palette to create the painting, and will be automatically hallmarked. Exhibiting this painting to someone will fill their minds with thoughts of fear.
Think of the paintings of Heironymous Bosch. For this skill and others like it, there will be several "canned" descriptions and you'll get one of them at random. Causes the fear affliction.
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AESTHETICS - TAKEDOWN (Novice 33%)
Syntax: TAKEDOWN
You can take down a painting that's been exhibited without destroying it. This can't be done with enchanted paintings, nor with hallmarked paintings painted by another artist.
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AESTHETICS - SCRIPT (Novice 66%)
Syntax: PAINT SCRIPT
You may write messages on walls for all to see. You must be in an urban environment, and will require three applications from a palette.
Identical to Illusions Script, but it's not an illusion so it can't be dispelled that way. Instead, it could be removed with Nature Rain or... what else, for non-Commune-ists?
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AESTHETICS - STILLLIFE (Apprentice 0%)
Syntax: PAINT
This is intended to be a third choice for tertiary skill for bards. The primary purpose is for it to be different not only in style and theme from the others, but also in what kind of role you play in combat and other activities when you take it. It doesn't completely sacrifice offense in favor of support, but its offense is low-key and mostly focused on team combat.
As bards are currently masters of the performing arts, this skillset is designed to extend their artistry into the fine arts, building on what's in the Arts skillset without supplanting it. (Someone who studies this but not Arts would have to buy a few supplies from their friendly local artist, though.) I just love the idea of incorporating the artistic styles of Escher and Renoir and Pollock and Rothko into the game...
The details (power costs, specific afflictions, etc.) are eminently changeable, and while I'd like to hear criticisms and suggestions about them, I'm primarily interested in comments about the fundamental design and theme, the choices of skills, etc. (Incidentally, I'm still not happy with the name. "Aesthetics" is just the least worst option I've found.)
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CODE
ArtList            See a list of your works of art.
TouchupYellow      Use yellowtint to temporarily enhance greatrobes.
Landscape          Paint landscapes with your unique hallmark.
Grotesquerie        An artistic depiction of the terrors of the world.
TakeDown            Take a painting down without destroying it.
Script              Paint messages on the walls.
StillLife          Paint still lifes with your unique hallmark.
TouchupRed          Use redtint to temporarily add bleeding to weapons.
Paradox            An artistic depiction of dizzying optical illusions.
Portraits          Paint portraits of others with your unique hallmark.
TouchupBlue        Use bluetint to make pipes work faster.
Sketching          Create quick sketches of your subject for later use.
Impressionism      An artistic depiction of a beautiful pastoral scene.
Damage              Cure damage using a hallmarked portrait.
Surrealism          An artistic depiction of a confusing symbolic image.
Destroy            Destroy statues and paintings of substandard works.
Summon              Use a hallmarked still life to call an object.
Splatter            A splash of paint reveals those who are hidden.
Baroque            An artistic depiction of heroic deeds.
Prison              Turn an enchanted painting into a prison.
TouchupGreen        Use greentint to lend luck to your weapons.
Homunculus          Animate a figurine to be your companion.
Cracks              Use a hallmarked portrait to cure afflictions.
Catalog            List portraits of a particular person.
Minimalism          An artistic depiction of simple imagery.
Transcription      Copy elements between hallmarked portraits.
TouchupPurple      Use purpletint to make poisons hit more.
Foundation          Root a person in place using hallmarked paintings.
BaseCoat            Use a hallmarked portrait to repair deep damage.
Rococo              An artistic depiction that is rich with detail.
SummonPortrait      Use a hallmarked portrait to call a person to you.
Golem              Animate a statue to be your protector.
Transfix            Use a hallmarked portrait to transfix an opponent.
TouchupGold        Use goldtint to prevent stun.
Shadows            Erase shadows from a hallmarked landscape.
EyeForDetail        Your discerning artistic eye spots falsehoods.
TranscribePortrait  Transcribe a person into a landscape.
TouchupYellow      Use yellowtint to temporarily enhance greatrobes.
Landscape          Paint landscapes with your unique hallmark.
Grotesquerie        An artistic depiction of the terrors of the world.
TakeDown            Take a painting down without destroying it.
Script              Paint messages on the walls.
StillLife          Paint still lifes with your unique hallmark.
TouchupRed          Use redtint to temporarily add bleeding to weapons.
Paradox            An artistic depiction of dizzying optical illusions.
Portraits          Paint portraits of others with your unique hallmark.
TouchupBlue        Use bluetint to make pipes work faster.
Sketching          Create quick sketches of your subject for later use.
Impressionism      An artistic depiction of a beautiful pastoral scene.
Damage              Cure damage using a hallmarked portrait.
Surrealism          An artistic depiction of a confusing symbolic image.
Destroy            Destroy statues and paintings of substandard works.
Summon              Use a hallmarked still life to call an object.
Splatter            A splash of paint reveals those who are hidden.
Baroque            An artistic depiction of heroic deeds.
Prison              Turn an enchanted painting into a prison.
TouchupGreen        Use greentint to lend luck to your weapons.
Homunculus          Animate a figurine to be your companion.
Cracks              Use a hallmarked portrait to cure afflictions.
Catalog            List portraits of a particular person.
Minimalism          An artistic depiction of simple imagery.
Transcription      Copy elements between hallmarked portraits.
TouchupPurple      Use purpletint to make poisons hit more.
Foundation          Root a person in place using hallmarked paintings.
BaseCoat            Use a hallmarked portrait to repair deep damage.
Rococo              An artistic depiction that is rich with detail.
SummonPortrait      Use a hallmarked portrait to call a person to you.
Golem              Animate a statue to be your protector.
Transfix            Use a hallmarked portrait to transfix an opponent.
TouchupGold        Use goldtint to prevent stun.
Shadows            Erase shadows from a hallmarked landscape.
EyeForDetail        Your discerning artistic eye spots falsehoods.
TranscribePortrait  Transcribe a person into a landscape.
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AESTHETICS - ARTLIST (Inept 0%)
Syntax: ARTLIST
This ability will show you a list of any works of art you're carrying, and what they depict. It will show whether paintings are hallmarked and what they depict, along with how many months they have left.
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AESTHETICS - TOUCHUPYELLOW (Inept 33%)
Syntax: TOUCHUP
Adding coats of yellow tint to greatrobes will give them a temporary increase of +10 protection against cutting and blunt damage.
Note on touchups: Any single item can have only a single colour of touchups, and not more than ten coats. Each application uses a single tint and adds two coats. Each coat will work through a single use; it will be used up whenever it takes effect. For instance, a yellow tint touchup will be used up every time the wearer is hit with any attack that depends on the level of protection that the robes provide.
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AESTHETICS - LANDSCAPE (Inept 66%)
Syntax: PAINT HERE WITH HALLMARK
Paint gorgeous landscapes of your favorite locations, and mark the painting with your unique hallmark, which connects the painting to the place it depicts. You'll need a blank canvas and a full palette of paints. (You can also leave out the hallmark, in which case, this produces a mundane painting precisely the same as the equivalent Arts skill.) Sketches cannot be used to create hallmarked paintings.
Many of the skills in this skillset require a painting with your hallmark. These paintings get worn out when they're used, decaying by a specified number of months. Only the original artist can upkeep a hallmarked painting. Destroying a hallmarked painting is considered an attack on the artist (according to Avechna, the Avenger). Note that hallmarked paintings cannot be enchanted, as they already contain their own native magical forces.
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AESTHETICS - GROTESQUERIE (Novice 0%)
Syntax: PAINT GROTESQUERIE
............ EXHIBIT
Decay: 2 months
You can produce a painting depicting horrific scenes of unearthly terrors. It requires a canvas and full palette to create the painting, and will be automatically hallmarked. Exhibiting this painting to someone will fill their minds with thoughts of fear.
Think of the paintings of Heironymous Bosch. For this skill and others like it, there will be several "canned" descriptions and you'll get one of them at random. Causes the fear affliction.
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AESTHETICS - TAKEDOWN (Novice 33%)
Syntax: TAKEDOWN
You can take down a painting that's been exhibited without destroying it. This can't be done with enchanted paintings, nor with hallmarked paintings painted by another artist.
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AESTHETICS - SCRIPT (Novice 66%)
Syntax: PAINT SCRIPT
You may write messages on walls for all to see. You must be in an urban environment, and will require three applications from a palette.
Identical to Illusions Script, but it's not an illusion so it can't be dispelled that way. Instead, it could be removed with Nature Rain or... what else, for non-Commune-ists?
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AESTHETICS - STILLLIFE (Apprentice 0%)
Syntax: PAINT
Xiel2008-07-02 18:40:43
Yay ideas. A bit iffy on some of them, but it's much more than what I could come up with, so kudos. -thumbsup-
Unknown2008-07-02 18:49:02
didn't they take out all transfixes along time ago?
Lendren2008-07-02 18:50:34
Nope.
Which reminds me, this needs a way to strip blindness since blindness will defend against a lot of it... editing.
Which reminds me, this needs a way to strip blindness since blindness will defend against a lot of it... editing.
Ardmore2008-07-02 19:15:49
In class but after taking a quick look I actually... would quite enjoy this. Be home in a few hours to read it more carefully and I'll gather my thoughts.
I really like the idea behind the idea, good job Lendren.
I really like the idea behind the idea, good job Lendren.
Celina2008-07-02 19:19:12
Cool 
A couple comments:
A big fat NO on the no power, active void. At least dreamweavers have the restriction of being in dreamform.
Also a "no" on the Shadows thing. Making a skill to specifically target Night is the Spiritsinger in you, but it's not balanced.
Another "no" to the stun immunity.
I don't know how fond I am of giving bards another tertiary when they already have glamours all to themselves, but you have some really awesome ideas.
A couple comments:
A big fat NO on the no power, active void. At least dreamweavers have the restriction of being in dreamform.
Also a "no" on the Shadows thing. Making a skill to specifically target Night is the Spiritsinger in you, but it's not balanced.
Another "no" to the stun immunity.
I don't know how fond I am of giving bards another tertiary when they already have glamours all to themselves, but you have some really awesome ideas.
Druken2008-07-02 19:19:57
It's very neat! But why would a Harbinger want to strip shadows? Could that particular skill be swapped with something more Harbinger-oriented in the Harbinger bards' skillset?
Lendren2008-07-02 19:27:31
We can certainly put power onto the Void thing. I can also change the affliction, though I talked to a lot of people, and everyone ended up coming back to Void as a way for it to be worth doing but not overpowering (particularly since the bard has no way to prevent void being cured, or take advantage of it). So suggest what it should be changed to, or what the cost should be. I'm all ears.
The Shadows skill would ideally also be able to strip other room effects so that everyone can use it. Suggestions are welcome. Thing is, there aren't that many room effects like that, and most things that could be seen as a room effect already have ways to get rid of them. Shadows stand out as something that you can't remove and that's why it makes sense to have a way to remove it added somewhere -- it means those who learn this are immediately useful because they can do something no one else can do. There's plenty of other situations like this, where the only counter to A is something that is only available to people who know B. Thus, I think the best way to fix that is to give the Shadows skill two or more uses, so that everyone has some use for it. What else makes sense for it to be able to do?
Though, really, there's tons of skills out there that are shared between multiple guilds but only one of those guilds can really make use of it. So it's not so precedent-violating as you guys are making it out to be.
I really appreciate the positive comments about the concept and theme. I know that the specific skills and costs are something I'm not great at tweaking, and I expect that the comments on this thread will help me get input from people better at that than me (as I have already gotten from a number of other people including Nejii, Asmodea, and Xiel). We can tweak those things easy, if the underlying concept is sound and interesting.
The Shadows skill would ideally also be able to strip other room effects so that everyone can use it. Suggestions are welcome. Thing is, there aren't that many room effects like that, and most things that could be seen as a room effect already have ways to get rid of them. Shadows stand out as something that you can't remove and that's why it makes sense to have a way to remove it added somewhere -- it means those who learn this are immediately useful because they can do something no one else can do. There's plenty of other situations like this, where the only counter to A is something that is only available to people who know B. Thus, I think the best way to fix that is to give the Shadows skill two or more uses, so that everyone has some use for it. What else makes sense for it to be able to do?
Though, really, there's tons of skills out there that are shared between multiple guilds but only one of those guilds can really make use of it. So it's not so precedent-violating as you guys are making it out to be.
I really appreciate the positive comments about the concept and theme. I know that the specific skills and costs are something I'm not great at tweaking, and I expect that the comments on this thread will help me get input from people better at that than me (as I have already gotten from a number of other people including Nejii, Asmodea, and Xiel). We can tweak those things easy, if the underlying concept is sound and interesting.
Fionn2008-07-02 19:27:53
Some random thoughts:
Touchup yellow and gold sound ridiculously good. How long does it take to recover from a touchup with these? In comparison, touchup red, green, and purple look weak. It is odd that gold gives 100% stun immunity on the next stun hit, but touchups that only give a chance to increase a given rate get consumed irregardless of success. Green is especially bad because it will require a ton of applications to be of any use at all, and greentint requires some herbs that already have greater supply than demand more often than not (hi, myrtle and galingale!). Ew.
Afflictions given out are equally imbalanced. Why would anyone pick fear over void? Void at all sounds really iffy - its only defended as a "reasonable" dreamweaver affliction as is because a weaver in dreambody can do little else of direct combat value while in that state.
Shadows needs a secondary function of some sort so any Glom who manages to get that far up doesn't feel like they've been totally ripped off. That's a bit like giving out a skill that specifically strips lich (or prevents the use of trueheal) at mythical level in a new tertiary for monks.
But the idea behind the set is neat.
Touchup yellow and gold sound ridiculously good. How long does it take to recover from a touchup with these? In comparison, touchup red, green, and purple look weak. It is odd that gold gives 100% stun immunity on the next stun hit, but touchups that only give a chance to increase a given rate get consumed irregardless of success. Green is especially bad because it will require a ton of applications to be of any use at all, and greentint requires some herbs that already have greater supply than demand more often than not (hi, myrtle and galingale!). Ew.
Afflictions given out are equally imbalanced. Why would anyone pick fear over void? Void at all sounds really iffy - its only defended as a "reasonable" dreamweaver affliction as is because a weaver in dreambody can do little else of direct combat value while in that state.
Shadows needs a secondary function of some sort so any Glom who manages to get that far up doesn't feel like they've been totally ripped off. That's a bit like giving out a skill that specifically strips lich (or prevents the use of trueheal) at mythical level in a new tertiary for monks.
But the idea behind the set is neat.
Lendren2008-07-02 19:29:17
QUOTE(Celina @ Jul 2 2008, 03:19 PM) 527785
I don't know how fond I am of giving bards another tertiary when they already have glamours all to themselves, but you have some really awesome ideas.
Assuming you do the usual thing of considering "guardian + wiccan" to be sort of one class (with variations), and anyway, four guilds; and "druid + mage" the same way... there's already several examples of a pair of tertiaries only available to one group of four guilds, so why is this different?
Lendren2008-07-02 19:32:28
All the tint touchups last by the number of uses. Get hit ten times, and you've used up the ten coats. For instance, you might PROBE ROBES and at the end, you'd see "There are 8 coats of yellow tint touching it up." (Only with better grammar.) Get hit by something that depends on the protection (i.e., almost everything), and you now have 7 coats. So they wear off quickly when being used, but otherwise not at all.
No one would ever pick fear over void. Just like no one ever picks most novice skills over fabled skills in almost every other skillset. All us tritrans folks forget that not everyone gets tritrans and the lowbies like to have something they can do too!
Funny about the void thing... opinion is 50/50 divided for whether it's too strong or too weak. Which I take as meaning it's perfect. I actually switched it to blackout at one point, and stupidity at another point, but people who know better than me keep dragging it back to void because it'd be something the aesthete couldn't capitalize on, or make stick, but it'd be useful for them in a group -- which fits the idea of the skillset's offense being primarily support-based.
I put 2 power on it to provide a starting point for the next phase of the discussion about Minimalism.
No one would ever pick fear over void. Just like no one ever picks most novice skills over fabled skills in almost every other skillset. All us tritrans folks forget that not everyone gets tritrans and the lowbies like to have something they can do too!
Funny about the void thing... opinion is 50/50 divided for whether it's too strong or too weak. Which I take as meaning it's perfect. I actually switched it to blackout at one point, and stupidity at another point, but people who know better than me keep dragging it back to void because it'd be something the aesthete couldn't capitalize on, or make stick, but it'd be useful for them in a group -- which fits the idea of the skillset's offense being primarily support-based.
I put 2 power on it to provide a starting point for the next phase of the discussion about Minimalism.
Ardmore2008-07-02 19:36:20
QUOTE(Celina @ Jul 2 2008, 03:19 PM) 527785
I don't know how fond I am of giving bards another tertiary when they already have glamours all to themselves, but you have some really awesome ideas.
Hey. Shh. Glamours sucks. I think all bards should get Ecology.
Xenthos2008-07-02 19:36:42
Void is pretty good at preventing curing of itself, Lendren, especially if other herb-cures are thrown in behind it. Even more so if one of those is stupidity (in the form of a poison, perhaps, utilizing the purpletouchup).
As to the shadows thing: That really is the in you, as Celina said (though tweaked it a bit). It doesn't even make a whole lot of sense in the skillset (as suggested)-- *removing* shadows isn't the hard part, actually getting the shadows *correctly* is the difficult aspect of the art. There's a lot more "ooh, ahh!" of artwork with appropriate shadowing/depth than flat, shadowless pieces.
Edit: And to the 50/50 thing, I'd be interested in hearing names of those who think it's fine as suggested, and names who think it's overly much. That might help clarify why it's 50/50.
As to the shadows thing: That really is the in you, as Celina said (though tweaked it a bit). It doesn't even make a whole lot of sense in the skillset (as suggested)-- *removing* shadows isn't the hard part, actually getting the shadows *correctly* is the difficult aspect of the art. There's a lot more "ooh, ahh!" of artwork with appropriate shadowing/depth than flat, shadowless pieces.
Edit: And to the 50/50 thing, I'd be interested in hearing names of those who think it's fine as suggested, and names who think it's overly much. That might help clarify why it's 50/50.
Fionn2008-07-02 19:45:48
QUOTE(Lendren @ Jul 2 2008, 02:32 PM) 527793
No one would ever pick fear over void. Just like no one ever picks most novice skills over fabled skills in almost every other skillset. All us tritrans folks forget that not everyone gets tritrans and the lowbies like to have something they can do too!
And no one likes skills that eventually become obsolete, or are even of questionable value before you get to the higher echelons in the skillset. Some people work hard to get their crappy skills replaced with more useful things over time. If you're going to start a new skillset, you may as well try to make sure that everything is useful, at least situationally!
Having said that, Grotesquerie might be more fun if it gave some sort of phobia based affliction as well as fear. You could even vary which phobia it gives depending on what "stock" painting you make.
Shadows also has way too high of a power cost for its given purpose, unless its purpose is going to be expanded. New shadows can be dropped again very quickly. You might make it prevent shadows from being dropped for a set period of time instead, or for the Gloms, similarly block them from being removed/extend the period of time that they would remain dropped beyond normal decay time.
Ardmore2008-07-02 19:46:20
I'm sorry I must have missed this and I can't find it with 'find'. How many coats does one tint give? Just one? Ten? A hundred?
Lendren2008-07-02 19:46:32
I never denied being Seren. So get the Glomdorian in you to suggest the other use for that skill that'd make it useful for everyone, like I've asked for.
Also, suggest what affliction to replace Void with. Personally I favor blackout, but I know that's another widely loathed affliction.
Also, suggest what affliction to replace Void with. Personally I favor blackout, but I know that's another widely loathed affliction.
Fionn2008-07-02 19:47:35
QUOTE(Ardmore @ Jul 2 2008, 02:46 PM) 527798
I'm sorry I must have missed this and I can't find it with 'find'. How many coats does one tint give? Just one? Ten? A hundred?
Two.
Lendren2008-07-02 19:48:33
QUOTE(Fionn @ Jul 2 2008, 03:45 PM) 527797
Shadows also has way too high of a power cost for its given purpose, unless its purpose is going to be expanded. New shadows can be dropped again very quickly.
I like the limitation -- this skill is useless unless it's coordinated with someone else in your team preventing the shadows being replaced the moment it goes through. Which is as it should be.
QUOTE(Ardmore @ Jul 2 2008, 03:46 PM) 527798
I'm sorry I must have missed this and I can't find it with 'find'. How many coats does one tint give? Just one? Ten? A hundred?
As written, one tint gives two coats, and you can have a maximum of ten on an item. If this is looking too expensive, the number of coats per tint could be adjusted easily -- it's just a constant.
I am really appreciating the positive tone of these comments, even the critical ones by and large. Thanks everyone! I'm going back and editing in the changes that people propose that seem like good ones or ones with a consensus behind them, so don't think your criticisms and suggestions are wasted.
Xenthos2008-07-02 19:49:14
QUOTE(Lendren @ Jul 2 2008, 03:46 PM) 527799
I never denied being Seren. So get the Glomdorian in you to suggest the other use for that skill that'd make it useful for everyone, like I've asked for.
Or... replace it, since as I said, it really doesn't even make sense in the skillset as suggested. It's essentially a "This is something that I personally really want somehow, so I'm going to put it in this skillset and hope" suggestion (which, well, isn't the first time: it's happened with some skills like Rushing, but that doesn't really make it a great thing to encourage regardless).
Celina2008-07-02 19:52:12
QUOTE(Lendren @ Jul 2 2008, 02:29 PM) 527792
Assuming you do the usual thing of considering "guardian + wiccan" to be sort of one class (with variations), and anyway, four guilds; and "druid + mage" the same way... there's already several examples of a pair of tertiaries only available to one group of four guilds, so why is this different?
Druids and mages are very different. Wiccans and Guardians can be the similiar at times, I'll agree with you there, but not enough for me to agree with your line of reasoning (For example, wiccans are quite successful with hexes while nihilists...aren't. SD can fight with healing while Celestines can't). Bards are bards. It's not like they are "comparable"...they are the same.
edit: Blackout might work. Give it a small power cost, maybe 1? Blackout is easier to deal with than void IMO.
