So Void has a 2p cost now... hm. Seems a bit better (and is blocked by sixthsense?)

Okay, well, mostly positive and constructive. There's always a ringer, though. I think you're being a lot more Glomcentric over there than I'm being Serencentric over here -- you've got one of very few skills with absolutely no counter anywhere, and you're being very overtly territorial in defending that unfairness, even with the rather crippling limations placed on this counter, and even with my overt willingness to make it also useful for everyone.

In any case, this is obviously going to fall very neatly into intractable camps, and I would rather not have the skillset lost in another "nerf choke" argument, so let's take it as written that a small but vocal bunch of Glomdorians will insist on this being eliminated, and meanwhile, let's hear the suggestions for something else for it from people on all sides.

Yep, there's a note in there about how all the Exhibit skills are blocked by blindness, and Surrealism works like Flare in being able to strip it. (That was added as a result of comments in this thread.)

By the way, anyone have ideas for a better name for the skillset? Something that won't get confused with the existing Arts skillset, ideally.

The ability to move somone to any room on the plane with no real defence is kind of wtf.

I see. I'm fine with the proposal in general, and I'm making comments on the rest of it, but this one in specific was added to the skillset as a "This is something that I really want to do, so whether or not it makes sense, I'll add it in." I'm aware that adding a few other room-skills to it will leave the primary intended effect (that it was proposed as) intact, so of course you're willing to add a few more into it. That doesn't change the fact that it was proposed specifically to counter Night's advantages despite it not fitting, and that is clearly apparent. You want the skill for one specific purpose.

If I was to make a proposal for a new skillset that was mostly decent, but included a skill that stripped Drawdown, Shine, and the magic DMP from Moon users in the room, Serenwilders would complain (and rightly so) that it did not fit in the skillset. Pointing that out does *not* somehow mean that the rest of the thing is bad, or that there's a Seren-centric "conspiracy" against the introduction of the thing. It's pointing out that there is a flawed skill in the skillset. Like Rushing, or Chaindrag as it was first suggested, and the original Deliverance-copy suggestion.

I recognize that you think that's my intention. It isn't. But feel free to believe it is. In any case, intent is irrelevant; what matters is if it makes sense to have. It does.

Stripping shine is an interesting idea for another effect, though. It fits. It's obviously only a start since it's nowhere near important enough to balance, but "shine and other things" might be, once we find the other things. I've added shine, and clarified in the first post the need for more things to be suggested.

(Drawdown doesn't work though because that is a trait of a person, not a room. This is for room effects, since it's affecting a landscape painting.)

It's resisted the same as Planar Summon -- which is the ability to move someone to any room on the plane, and which isn't trans, and doesn't consume two expensive paintings doing it. (I'll go back and clarify the resistance part though.)

Incidentally, I feel obligated to point out that I do not think Lendren would take this skillset even if it were made available. There's a certain familial connection to GlamoursRainbowmancy that I would be very reluctant to break. Just thought I should be on record with that. I think this would be good for the bard class, and thus my guild, and thus me as someone who has invested a lot in supporting his guild, sure. But it's not for me personally.

(Admittedly, I'd be conflicted. Lendren's dabbling in the Arts was spurred on a lot by meeting Mai and then joining Lady Maylea's order. But in the end I think I'd have to keep the rainbows.)

I'm surprised at no comments on the skill that uses figurines, and gives people a reason (finally) to actually use and train the darned things.

so I get ganked or not is based on the roll of the dice? can you shield, is it instant can you move and not be summoned?

Also I love the idea of golemmancy.

Well, again, it takes a lot more work and effort to draw the shadows than it takes to ignore the shadows. That's my reasoning for saying it does not fit as suggested (and it really does not).

To the edit, "We need more ideas so that this is useful, and equally useful, for everyone."

Shadows give the following to Night followers:
+ Regeneration / curing, with Drink.
+ The ability to cast Bonds (3p).
+ The ability to cast Brumetower.
+ The ability to cast Choke (3p).

To really make it equally useful, it's going to have to strip some songs that are actively being played (50% from Bards), Fae/Angels/Demons (from Guardians/Wiccans), Stun (Warriors/Monks, nothing really passive to strip), deactivate the room-demesne for 10s (Mages/Druids), Stagtotem (Hart), and so on. Shadows have been made to be an essential part of the Shadowdancer's arsenal, matched only really by Demesnes and Songs in terms of passive potential effects (though demesnes and songs have more of them, and more effective on the whole: The only deadly part of the shadows is Choke, which is still being kicked around by Estarra for replacement anyways).

The regeneration/curing bit is matched by things like Stagtotem and that Holy Ground spell in Celestialism, as well as Sweetfont, and bonds is a 3p monolith sigil (that only blocks one-way, out).

It's instant but otherwise blocked by the same things as Summon, which would include shield (shield blocks summons, doesn't it? it should). I didn't (and still don't) see this as a ganking skill, because I have to go to where you are to use it -- that is, into the thick of you and your allies. And I have to paint you before I can do it, so unless I already have a painting of you, I have to do that first. It's not even a beckon/chaindrag equivalent, though it could be used to break up an opposing group like those do -- though with a much higher cost, and a greater risk to the person doing it. It's a very multipurpose skill -- I would probably use it on myself more than on enemies, as a kind of spores-surrogate (though a billion times more expensive than spores). I don't think it's good to look at it as how it's like some other skill, particularly; it strikes me as being one of those skills that looks on the surface like a variant on something else, but when you actually think of how it would be used, it's not really that similar to anything else.

AESTHETICS - SUMMONPORTRAIT (Fabled 50%)

Syntax: STARE
Power: 2 (any)
Decay: 6 months
By carefully considering a hallmarked portrait, you can call the depicted person to you by reaching into the painting and drawing the person out. The person must be in the local area. The summon is blocked by a monolith unless the person is in an adjacent location.
Takes half as long as Planar Summon. Can be resisted similarly to it.

So... since this doesn't actually create the painting, what's the decay bit doing on it? The first time you use it, the decay on the painting is set to 6?

It's probably better to give the hallmark portrait making itself a short decay rate of 3 months or so instead, or give each painting a number of "uses" (whether it succeeds or fails). Or a mix of both.

I've changed it to strip choke and brumetower but leave shadows themselves there. Still need more ideas for room effects it can remove or alter (or even add).

Lendren you have to think of it like this. You walk into the room use an instant skill to put somone in a no exit monod desmene room. Now because my diceroll wasn't favorable im basicly free jump, or completly stuck and can't get you. You may not use it like that but lol as you can see not everyone has your high moral fiber. I think getting rid of that and the anti stun skill. I like an anti choke skill I think it has real merit. But I think the harbingers need their own skill in place of that maybe a cure inquisition/combo, and omen.

That's not possible. We've tried similar before. :/

It couldn't be a monolithed room because it's blocked by monolith, remember the last two posts about that? It can't put you anywhere Summon can't put you.

It's not possible to remove the choke placed by a particular person, because the choke is a room property which has no connection to a person, it has no "loyalty", it's not connected to the caster in any way. But it is possible to remove the choke placed in a particular location, because it is associated with a location.

It also says that the original artist can upkeep a hallmarked painting (which would remove the decay concern), as well as not saying what the original decay time is. Hm.

The original decay time is the same as it is when you make a painting now. The decay is meant to be another way to give the skills a cost to use (the cost of tints and palettes), as well as to limit how many times you can use them in a row in the same fight -- you can't really stop and upkeep a painting in the middle of a combat -- so it's a resource the way charges on an enchantment are a resource (well, more than that because you can recharge a ring instantly in mid-fight with no balance loss, but upkeep has a long balance loss, I think).