I don't know much about American law, or even the details of English law for that matter, but there's a disclaimer saying that if you buy credits you won't lose them, but you can lose stuff you get from them and they have nothing to do with it because IRE games are persistent worlds. Presumably that's supposed to cover them from this kind of thing.

That said, it is indeed and a stain on Achaea's track record.

I just don't see how they can get away with that sort of thing though. It would be like me posting something in my neighborhood saying that everyone is welcome, however, someone from my family may or may not steal all your money, car, and booze. I'm betting that I'd be digging myself out from under a jail if I tried something like that.

Yeah...I dunno. Those situations seem subjectively different to me.

Only two? Your guild ought to be ashamed... unless you were around on the off hours, which is fair.

Heh, hey two is a good number! I was glad to get those, seriously.

Hah, that mixes well with Shuman stealing all of the Serpentlord credits before quitting Hashan, the house and moving to Mhaldor.

I logged back into Achaea maybe three weeks ago to visit my IG husband and it took me a whole minute and half for a robbery attempt- they were attempting to steal my 10 Year IRE Anniversary amulet, too, one of the unique items people got for being around at that time. That, and two journals. Wow.

I suppose there's also Daes, who kicked out every member of his house (Also the Serpentlords, fancy that) to 'purify' the house and change it's RP so it was actually a cult of assassins and not snugglers, or something. He freaked when Ourania screwed him over, because apparently nobody needs to inform the Divine if they want to complete destroy their organization (?).

Due to the wider availability of exemplary damages in the US in tort and (to an extent) contract I'm sure someone could give IRE a run for their money despite the disclaimer, but then I'm not an expert in US law at all. In English law however, disclaimers have come under very close scrutiny and are not always applicable, especially with specific legislation to protect consumers (see things like Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977). Though again, not an expert.

And one of the reasons I enjoy lusternia is the absence of thievery. I played Achaea for a while, and being stolen from after working for so long to get items is very, very fustrating and unpleasant.

That still seems like a retarded decision on the administration's part. Why would you allow a system that loses you credit-buying players (and, by the sound of it, large amounts of credit-buying)?

The one and only time someone stole from me, they stole a turkey pot pie, and a journal. I complained to them, and they jus thanked me for the food.

Because the thieves and lolzer pkers outweigh the people who want to play the game instead of acting like complete idiots with a new toy. In doing so, they knowingly exchange quality players who buy credits for spoiled, ADHD, preteens (no offense to those who are struggling with it) who's numbers are higher, which makes the company more money. So basically, Achaea is catered towards that type of person, not people who want to seriously RP or have mature dialect.

Some of us try, okay! Some of us try.

I have to say, if it wasn't for my own laziness, I would have permanently switched from Achaea to here.

Isn't maintaining a presence on two games harder than just one?

It's certainly an interesting question, though I don't think a claimant would be successful. The most likely claim would have to be be based in breach of contract, and I think I were IRE, I would argue as follows: the contract is for credits, you pay your money, you receive your credits, and contract performed, no breach; by analogy: if you go to a travel agents for some Euros and get robbed in a Parisian brothel, you cannot then sue your travel agents because you did not get the intended enjoyment from your changed money - the contract with the travel agents is for the exchange and nothing more. Of course, it is not that simple in Lusternia as Lusternia does not only supply you with credits, it also maintains the game. If you bought a set of credits and IRE then announced that it was closing Lusternia down, you'd have a pretty good claim regardless of disclaimers (certainly you would in the UK, under UCTA s.5). However, the fact that you can buy credits and you get them in a form which you cannot lose, and then you convert them into a form to which risk attaches (gold or gold-bought goods), and to which the reasonable person would know risk attaches, must surely be relevant. Similarly, I'd argue the fact that this risk is a part of the multi-player interactivity which makes the credits worth buying in the first place. In short, in these circumstances the disclaimers would surely be considered 'reasonable' and I would be surprised if they were not upheld.

Does that apply in the US as well?

Well, our laws vary a bit from state to state (both in how they're actually written, and in how they're interpreted). Depending on the venue, I think the claim would have a pretty good chance at it in some states and a really poor one in others-- it is pretty close to the line. As Fain said, the (Clarification: Game-) world is controlled by IRE, so there should be a pretty solid foundation (and disclaimers have been under a fair bit of assault here as well. Though, again, in some states more than others).

I'm guessing that the venue would be California, though. If you're going to argue that everything is controlled by IRE and it's a breach of their contract, you'd have to do it where they're located. And I don't really have any idea at all how they'd look at it there, in general.

The big reason for the disclaimer is to prevent the growing trend of people thinking they own "virtual property".

With the interest in Second Life, World of Warcraft, etc, there are economies shaping up. People are spending real money for so-called "virtual property/goods". There have been some movements towards lawsuits and legislation covering this. All the IRE realms are games, first and foremost, not an attempt to create avatars on a social network. If "rights to virtual property" were applied, there would be chaos. You'd have disgruntled or bored players trying to get stuff back, lawsuits over bannings, etc. It would become less a game. Imagine if you had to go through a legal bureaucracy just to kick a very bad player out.

And for games, a lot of items like Credits or whatnot are more of a marketing gimmick than anything else. A lot of people like "free", and it was designed to be an alternative to repeat structured fees. The goal is to get people in for the free content and then hook them in with incentives to pay. Let's face it, this is just another "service" model--at the very least it should be. The

If Congress or a Legal Decision by a judge suddenly said that any "virtual good" would be protected like real or intellectual property, and enforced it within games such as WoW, Everquest, etc., I could see IRE either shutting down or deciding to switch to monthly subscriptions, along with other "free to play" games.

I'm rather doubtful that any step that large will be taken. Though they do seem to occasionally put up really stupid legislation regarding the Internet, the cost-benefit ratio for that law would be abysmal in most cases (except in the extreme ones, such as 5,000,000 gold-- equivalent to $400-- being stolen because you got outbid on an auction). In that case I really don't see, 1) Returning the gold, 2) Changing it so that the gold bidding can be done from gold in the bank, and 3) Whenever you're outbid on an auction, that gold is automatically dumped directly into the bank as being a "bad decision" in any way.

(And, hey, this is a good idea for any IRE game, even one that isn't up to 5,000,000 gold auctions on items yet! Who knows, you may want to try it at some point in the future, and a bit of protection never hurts.)

Just make it so when you're outbid in an auction, you have to reclaim your gold in any 'can bid here' location.

That works just as well.

I went dormant pretty shortly after hitting GR2 here. Sorry.


It's been suggested to Pentharian in Achaea.

Please don't get that here. It's been proven that anything cool/iuseful added in another IRE game isn't allowed in Achaea, and I'm selfish.