Nezha2008-07-15 10:33:57
http://nogfx.org/logs/417
For those who wanted more tarot-bard logs.. Here is a duel against a good fighter.
1. This is a good log not only because it pits glamours and tarots, but because it involves the old bard spec(mugwump) against what I think is the now ideal bard spec(human)
2. Its hard when two bards decides to cancel each others songs.. I actually didnt know what to do at one point and ended up trying to play all 8 stanzas in the middle of the fight just so I can PF and do blackout (And I dunno why I kept blanknoting.. I dont even have song up. Habit i guess)
3. If you want to go tarot, I really suggest a really tanky race. Aslaran even with lvl2 balance bonus might not be enough. I considered it, but in the end opted for human with yellow and platters.. Surviving to get 7 rubs requires tanking things..
4. You can see the problem with fascinate and transfix here.. transfix on average took a long time to stick.. Although, I cant say that my hangedman fared better against a fellow acrobat, but against other achetypes.. webbing when one needs the web can be a lifesaver.
5. Oh here is a trick I learned from Geb. Under octave, allheal and rubphial.. will remove two barbs.. then maybe hinder a few to get precious seconds so I can eat earwort and cure the others.. Almost no barbs will stick that way..
Note: Mostly when I try to teach someone, they would say "heh, im gonna invent my own attack".. The not invented here syndrome eh.. in the end i just gave up giving advice XP
6. When he dropped octave, I knew it would be safe to fling soulless. Even without preparatory things like fall and attraction. Why? -- Cause theres nothing worse for a bard than leaving an octaved room voluntarily (And acutely so for a harbinger who relies on it)
For those who wanted more tarot-bard logs.. Here is a duel against a good fighter.
1. This is a good log not only because it pits glamours and tarots, but because it involves the old bard spec(mugwump) against what I think is the now ideal bard spec(human)
2. Its hard when two bards decides to cancel each others songs.. I actually didnt know what to do at one point and ended up trying to play all 8 stanzas in the middle of the fight just so I can PF and do blackout (And I dunno why I kept blanknoting.. I dont even have song up. Habit i guess)
3. If you want to go tarot, I really suggest a really tanky race. Aslaran even with lvl2 balance bonus might not be enough. I considered it, but in the end opted for human with yellow and platters.. Surviving to get 7 rubs requires tanking things..
4. You can see the problem with fascinate and transfix here.. transfix on average took a long time to stick.. Although, I cant say that my hangedman fared better against a fellow acrobat, but against other achetypes.. webbing when one needs the web can be a lifesaver.
5. Oh here is a trick I learned from Geb. Under octave, allheal and rubphial.. will remove two barbs.. then maybe hinder a few to get precious seconds so I can eat earwort and cure the others.. Almost no barbs will stick that way..
Note: Mostly when I try to teach someone, they would say "heh, im gonna invent my own attack".. The not invented here syndrome eh.. in the end i just gave up giving advice XP
6. When he dropped octave, I knew it would be safe to fling soulless. Even without preparatory things like fall and attraction. Why? -- Cause theres nothing worse for a bard than leaving an octaved room voluntarily (And acutely so for a harbinger who relies on it)
Malarious2008-07-15 10:51:51
All in all not a bad log!
Daedalion failed to track the most important thing, how you will try to kill him. He paid for it and learned for next time. So it will be harder, but not neccessarily impossible.
QUOTE(nezha @ Jul 15 2008, 06:33 AM) 532890
http://nogfx.org/logs/417
For those who wanted more tarot-bard logs.. Here is a duel against a good fighter.
1. This is a good log not only because it pits glamours and tarots, but because it involves the old bard spec(mugwump) against what I think is the now ideal bard spec(human)
Races matter less now, speed matters for almost nothing. Any semi usable race is good now though. Elfen, Merian, Viscanti, Human, Aslaran. But its gauging penalties really.
2. Its hard when two bards decides to cancel each others songs.. I actually didnt know what to do at one point and ended up trying to play all 8 stanzas in the middle of the fight just so I can PF and do blackout (And I dunno why I kept blanknoting.. I dont even have song up. Habit i guess)
Fugue needs to be changed or removed, theres nothing you can do to stop your songs from dying off, it should either cost more power and have a longer eq or be changed to only let you move a song backward for like 2p per stanza. It really just kind of killls fights and makes it a fight with 0 songs instead of a battle of the songs.
3. If you want to go tarot, I really suggest a really tanky race. Aslaran even with lvl2 balance bonus might not be enough. I considered it, but in the end opted for human with yellow and platters.. Surviving to get 7 rubs requires tanking things..
Surviving rubbing would be good yes.
4. You can see the problem with fascinate and transfix here.. transfix on average took a long time to stick.. Although, I cant say that my hangedman fared better against a fellow acrobat, but against other achetypes.. webbing when one needs the web can be a lifesaver.
He needed to use afterimage to give him multiple openings for transfix if he planned to use it alot.
5. Oh here is a trick I learned from Geb. Under octave, allheal and rubphial.. will remove two barbs.. then maybe hinder a few to get precious seconds so I can eat earwort and cure the others.. Almost no barbs will stick that way..
These two both are part of the group that need to be fixed. All active ways to cure it need to be undone. It costs power to octave and even use powerspikes if you use it (or use it on accident like I have before..) it shouldnt be so insanely easy to cure. Ignoring that only celest has the phial the skills that do this such as moondance full, healing skills, syphon, empower, etc should all not cure it as well. Offense where small things kill it? Thats dumb, I think its a bug that they cure it because it isnt checking what its curing. And yes that will be highly disputed.
Note: Mostly when I try to teach someone, they would say "heh, im gonna invent my own attack".. The not invented here syndrome eh.. in the end i just gave up giving advice XP
6. When he dropped octave, I knew it would be safe to fling soulless. Even without preparatory things like fall and attraction. Why? -- Cause theres nothing worse for a bard than leaving an octaved room voluntarily (And acutely so for a harbinger who relies on it)
Actually the reason he died was blackout, had nothing to do with the octave. I asked when he died what he was doing, he said he didnt move in blackout he wasnt thinking about it or he would have somersaulted on blackout since you were rubbing.
For those who wanted more tarot-bard logs.. Here is a duel against a good fighter.
1. This is a good log not only because it pits glamours and tarots, but because it involves the old bard spec(mugwump) against what I think is the now ideal bard spec(human)
Races matter less now, speed matters for almost nothing. Any semi usable race is good now though. Elfen, Merian, Viscanti, Human, Aslaran. But its gauging penalties really.
2. Its hard when two bards decides to cancel each others songs.. I actually didnt know what to do at one point and ended up trying to play all 8 stanzas in the middle of the fight just so I can PF and do blackout (And I dunno why I kept blanknoting.. I dont even have song up. Habit i guess)
Fugue needs to be changed or removed, theres nothing you can do to stop your songs from dying off, it should either cost more power and have a longer eq or be changed to only let you move a song backward for like 2p per stanza. It really just kind of killls fights and makes it a fight with 0 songs instead of a battle of the songs.
3. If you want to go tarot, I really suggest a really tanky race. Aslaran even with lvl2 balance bonus might not be enough. I considered it, but in the end opted for human with yellow and platters.. Surviving to get 7 rubs requires tanking things..
Surviving rubbing would be good yes.
4. You can see the problem with fascinate and transfix here.. transfix on average took a long time to stick.. Although, I cant say that my hangedman fared better against a fellow acrobat, but against other achetypes.. webbing when one needs the web can be a lifesaver.
He needed to use afterimage to give him multiple openings for transfix if he planned to use it alot.
5. Oh here is a trick I learned from Geb. Under octave, allheal and rubphial.. will remove two barbs.. then maybe hinder a few to get precious seconds so I can eat earwort and cure the others.. Almost no barbs will stick that way..
These two both are part of the group that need to be fixed. All active ways to cure it need to be undone. It costs power to octave and even use powerspikes if you use it (or use it on accident like I have before..) it shouldnt be so insanely easy to cure. Ignoring that only celest has the phial the skills that do this such as moondance full, healing skills, syphon, empower, etc should all not cure it as well. Offense where small things kill it? Thats dumb, I think its a bug that they cure it because it isnt checking what its curing. And yes that will be highly disputed.
Note: Mostly when I try to teach someone, they would say "heh, im gonna invent my own attack".. The not invented here syndrome eh.. in the end i just gave up giving advice XP
6. When he dropped octave, I knew it would be safe to fling soulless. Even without preparatory things like fall and attraction. Why? -- Cause theres nothing worse for a bard than leaving an octaved room voluntarily (And acutely so for a harbinger who relies on it)
Actually the reason he died was blackout, had nothing to do with the octave. I asked when he died what he was doing, he said he didnt move in blackout he wasnt thinking about it or he would have somersaulted on blackout since you were rubbing.
Daedalion failed to track the most important thing, how you will try to kill him. He paid for it and learned for next time. So it will be harder, but not neccessarily impossible.
Nezha2008-07-15 10:58:55
QUOTE
Actually the reason he died was blackout, had nothing to do with the octave. I asked when he died what he was doing, he said he didnt move in blackout he wasnt thinking about it or he would have somersaulted on blackout since you were rubbing.
Yeah, he didnt see.. but I meant - I've sparred with quite a few who moves everytime I blackout.. but when I saw the octave drop, I considered that he wont move so soon because he just dropped it..
Shiri2008-07-15 11:05:24
Active things like moondance full cost 3p curing manabarbs (0p)...even in octave that doesn't sound unbalanced. Certainly a lot fairer than the ol' "ghost out of perfectfifth" that was being defended a couple days ago.
Malarious2008-07-15 11:07:42
QUOTE(Shiri @ Jul 15 2008, 07:05 AM) 532894
Active things like moondance full cost 3p curing manabarbs (0p)...even in octave that doesn't sound unbalanced. Certainly a lot fairer than the ol' "ghost out of perfectfifth" that was being defended a couple days ago.
Full can cure a few things if I recall.. like.. ALL the barbs. at the same cost as octave alone.
I aint defending ghost, it didnt use to ignore/cure perfectfifth, I know for a fact from when I tried. No idea when it got ninjad to escape it (or if it was envoyed but I didnt think it was). I lost kills from ghost, not anymore!
Shiri2008-07-15 11:14:12
QUOTE(Malarious @ Jul 15 2008, 12:07 PM) 532897
Full can cure a few things if I recall.. like.. ALL the barbs. at the same cost as octave alone.
I aint defending ghost, it didnt use to ignore/cure perfectfifth, I know for a fact from when I tried. No idea when it got ninjad to escape it (or if it was envoyed but I didnt think it was). I lost kills from ghost, not anymore!
I aint defending ghost, it didnt use to ignore/cure perfectfifth, I know for a fact from when I tried. No idea when it got ninjad to escape it (or if it was envoyed but I didnt think it was). I lost kills from ghost, not anymore!
It can cure a lot of affs but doesn't always - it depends on the moon phase. At any rate, it doesn't cure the octave, only the barbs which are each 0p.
Malarious2008-07-15 11:18:02
QUOTE(Shiri @ Jul 15 2008, 07:14 AM) 532900
It can cure a lot of affs but doesn't always - it depends on the moon phase. At any rate, it doesn't cure the octave, only the barbs which are each 0p.
Still remains its 1 skill to kill multiple parts of an offense, though I believe it requires a coven so its not as big of a problem.
Shiri2008-07-15 11:18:55
It doesn't require a coven thank goodness, that would be a HORRIBLE skill and justify a lot more than clearing up octave affs.
EDIT: And as for one skill to kill multiple parts of an offence...I dunno, that's just what happens. Ghost kills more power out of someone trying to inqui you, or soulless you, or whatever.
EDIT: And as for one skill to kill multiple parts of an offence...I dunno, that's just what happens. Ghost kills more power out of someone trying to inqui you, or soulless you, or whatever.
Malarious2008-07-15 11:21:35
QUOTE(Shiri @ Jul 15 2008, 07:18 AM) 532903
It doesn't require a coven thank goodness, that would be a HORRIBLE skill and justify a lot more than clearing up octave affs.
EDIT: And as for one skill to kill multiple parts of an offence...I dunno, that's just what happens. Ghost kills more power out of someone trying to inqui you, or soulless you, or whatever.
EDIT: And as for one skill to kill multiple parts of an offence...I dunno, that's just what happens. Ghost kills more power out of someone trying to inqui you, or soulless you, or whatever.
THen it retains its problem of mass curing in octave
Ideally nothing should cure them but some things kind of are made to require they do.. like divinefire, trueheal (sadly 
), etc these are special exceptions though and have costs to suit it. Only good thing about full is the power cost I would think. So you cant spam it, but it is usable every like 20 seconds or so for quite some time, on top of being able to delay and hinder.Daereth2008-07-15 16:50:30
Nothing should cure horehound afflictions in octave, Im sorry. Unless it's a power healing skill like trueheal then I can live with that, other than those it is defeating the very purpose of octave in the first place. Whatever this phial is? what is with celest and seren getting all the healing spells and we don't get crap? go go glom trueheal ftw!
Also, I will now somersault everytime you blackout once you get enough rubs, it will be very near impossible by yourself to kill me using that method. As you can see I just stood there attacking back becuse I had no idea what was happening, stupid me.
Also, I will now somersault everytime you blackout once you get enough rubs, it will be very near impossible by yourself to kill me using that method. As you can see I just stood there attacking back becuse I had no idea what was happening, stupid me.
Unknown2008-07-15 17:00:37
QUOTE(Daereth @ Jul 15 2008, 09:50 AM) 533004
Also, I will now somersault everytime you blackout once you get enough rubs, it will be very near impossible by yourself to kill me using that method. As you can see I just stood there attacking back becuse I had no idea what was happening, stupid me.
This is why I never understand bard soulless as a tactic. Assuming a competent system that tracks soulless rubs it becomes almost impossible to get the kill. The opponent just treats every blackout as a fling and so you have no way to hide it. This means you need to fall back on just hindering them long enough. If you can do that though there is no need for the blackout (except perhaps to hide some initial hindering). My understanding of the bard skillset is that there is not enough to hinder long enough.
Unknown2008-07-15 17:02:36
The more and more I look at Bard Tarot, the more and more I'm thinking it needs to be split away from Guardians so we can have something less...linear than tank->rubx7->blackout->Fling Soulless.
Nezha2008-07-15 17:17:11
QUOTE
Unless it's a power healing skill like trueheal then I can live with that, other than those it is defeating the very purpose of octave in the first place.
Now it gave me an idea.. need to test if hod/gedullah/green will cure the barbs.QUOTE
This is why I never understand bard soulless as a tactic. Assuming a competent system that tracks soulless rubs it becomes almost impossible to get the kill.
If I always did what I was supposed to do when im supposed to do it, ill prolly have more wins than i have right now.
Anyway - youre looking at this from the wrong angle. All soulless does is give me *another* option. Its not like I cant use octave or minorsecond spam to damage kill. I can actually do what he did back there and tried to stick the barbs too.. I'm just using soulless exclusively now because i'm practicing it, but it does'nt mean all those octave skill i had before suddenly disappeared.
And remember that Aeon supplements my PF nicely, and Hangedman is my version of fascinate. Soulless wasnt the only reason i took tarot.(also: blackout hides a lot of things)
Celina2008-07-15 19:24:38
Good win!
Still a one trick pony. This might work a few more times until people start associating "nezha" with "blackout/soulless."
Still a one trick pony. This might work a few more times until people start associating "nezha" with "blackout/soulless."
Shiri2008-07-16 01:54:13
QUOTE(Daereth @ Jul 15 2008, 05:50 PM) 533004
Nothing should cure horehound afflictions in octave, Im sorry. Unless it's a power healing skill like trueheal then I can live with that, other than those it is defeating the very purpose of octave in the first place. Whatever this phial is? what is with celest and seren getting all the healing spells and we don't get crap? go go glom trueheal ftw!
Also, I will now somersault everytime you blackout once you get enough rubs, it will be very near impossible by yourself to kill me using that method. As you can see I just stood there attacking back becuse I had no idea what was happening, stupid me.
Also, I will now somersault everytime you blackout once you get enough rubs, it will be very near impossible by yourself to kill me using that method. As you can see I just stood there attacking back becuse I had no idea what was happening, stupid me.
Full is a power healing skill, so I guess you can live with it. The phial isn't though.
P.S I don't know why you'd want active healing skills that cost power, they're really not that great. There's a reason most people only use green to get out of slitlocks/windpipe locks.
Malarious2008-07-16 10:47:00
QUOTE(Eldritch Ex Machina @ Jul 15 2008, 01:02 PM) 533006
The more and more I look at Bard Tarot, the more and more I'm thinking it needs to be split away from Guardians so we can have something less...linear than tank->rubx7->blackout->Fling Soulless.
I was going to browse and not sign in but this post made me do it!
I am fairly sure most everyone knows bard tarot is rather crappy, especially if you ever try to compare it head on to ecology (which might actually be better than music itself in some cases). Bard tarot offers limited options, mainly soulless, escape skills, and lust/empress. Hangedman is available but uses balance which is actually fairly slow, especially compared to the writhe powerhouse that is transfix.
Give it some time and I am sure the envoys will make a case to have tarot brought up for review for bards (though how do you compare to smudges and poisons from famililar, major dmp, passive blocking, and batbane/herbbane I dont know).
Unknown2008-07-16 15:18:34
Tarot needs a bard spec so we don't have to deal with potentially OPing Guardians. Then we can add all sorts of flavor to it too.
Malarious2008-07-17 08:31:43
QUOTE(Eldritch Ex Machina @ Jul 16 2008, 11:18 AM) 533720
Tarot needs a bard spec so we don't have to deal with potentially OPing Guardians. Then we can add all sorts of flavor to it too.
If I recall, Estarra has stated she wont specialize tarot, just like she wouldnt spec hexes.
Unknown2008-07-17 15:37:13
QUOTE(Malarious @ Jul 17 2008, 09:31 AM) 534466
If I recall, Estarra has stated she wont specialize tarot, just like she wouldnt spec hexes.
I don't see HOW you'd spec Tarot. I mean... they're cards. It's fairly straightforward.
...though I suppose you could add the Minor Arcana.
And make it fortune-tellerish. Like Runes.
Hmm.
Nezha2008-07-22 08:25:35
1. Vs SpiritSinger(spar) -- http://nogfx.org/logs/424
2. Vs Cacophony(duel) -- http://nogfx.org/logs/423
Well, i got all the bard archetype.. i guess this is gonna be the last log for bard to bard combat. For all those asking me how i fight, just.. read them things. And please, dont go looking at the logs looking for things to nerf
ciao
2. Vs Cacophony(duel) -- http://nogfx.org/logs/423
Well, i got all the bard archetype.. i guess this is gonna be the last log for bard to bard combat. For all those asking me how i fight, just.. read them things. And please, dont go looking at the logs looking for things to nerf
ciao
