I'll pick out each of your points one by one, since it seems I need to do it.

Have I ever said that people who aren't demigod are completely useless to society? All I've said is that demigods should get a chance to at being raised to VA. Nothing more, nothing less.

Yes, we're always complaining for more. Yes, people are always complaining for less. And who wins pretty much every single time? Those who haven't actually put the effort into it. And don't give me the 'hitting macros all day is effortless' BS. It takes a lot of effort and time to reach these levels. Of course we want more in return for it. I'm willing to give up some combat powers for more RP powers and things like less power required for VA.

Have you read any of our posts in the thread I linked to? We want a balance between raising a demigod and a non-demigod. We want to make it so that besides level two equal people, one a demigod and one not a demigod, both have the same chances of being raised. In fact, we don't care if the balance is slightly biased towards the non-demigod side. Right now, no one will be impractical enough to kill one million power to give a current demigod the ascendance skill, which is useless in itself besides one or two skills, and a slightly easier task of getting Domoths. What do you get from raising a non-demigod? All that PLUS another person to help in the Domoth Realms.

I'm more than happy for demigods to be stripped of all priviledges bar a bare few (including the ability to participate in domoth)

As you seem to have pointed out quite eloquently, demigods have all the powers of ascendents bar "the ascendance skill, which is useless in itself besides one or two skills"

So why do you care?

At the end of the day... and I'll bold it Demigod raised means +0 participants, Mortal raised means +1 lowering the cost to raise will not change that fact. So why do you ask for it, especially in an unrelated thread

I suspect because being a Vernal is set up as an achievement people can "ascend" to with enough work for their commune. People didn't realise they were going to get screwed for the opportunity to have that "cool factor" by getting demi to help out in the process.

I'm just glad I got it when we didn't know fully how it worked!

Exactly what Shiri said...

I don't quite see why those that worked to get demigod should be excluded to pretty much ever have a chance to be raised as ascendant simply because... they worked to get demigod. Saran, how does that make sense?

Lowering the cost will not change the fact that raising a non-demigod means one more participant. Lowering the cost, however, means you are not using as much power to raise the demigod, which means you cannot compare the mortal raised +1/demigod raised +0 thing because it does not cost the same. An apple at $1 may not be at the quality as an apple at $2, but the quality for money may be higher. In this case, I agree that it will still not balance it completely for demigods. So why are you against it so much? Seems to me like you don't like it simply because it is an upgrade of sorts to demigods, a group you aren't part of.

/derail

My point is that the way the system is set up, there is no benefit to raising a demigod.

Say you halve the cost of ascending a demi

For the cost of one mortal ascendant you get two demis and still don't end up with a gain.

By Rikas words, demigods are effectively ascendants bar a few minor differences. As it stands the majority of the benefit of raising an ascendant is based around getting a new... demigod (in reference to the general set of powers attained at level 100)

If demigods were noticeably worse than ascendants then perhaps there would be cause to (the most extreme case being demigods becomming unable to participate in the domoth at all)

If demigods became cheap enough to raise that it suddenly might be worth it, then you would likely see a boom in the number of ascendants which the current costs and yearly ascension seem designed to avoid.



You're ideas don't seem to address these, all they are asking is to cheapen ascension. Also if ascendant was reduced to such a cost, what the nil do you think the chances of someone who was deserving but not demigod would be?

*invokemargaretchodudevoice* Uuuuuh weeell we could raise this person OOOOR we could raise four demigods

Aww, pulling the i'm not a demigod line... can you pull that when I'm against a warrior/wiccan/monk/bard change.

Let's say you get 50 cents a day, now every second day you can buy one apple. And some days you do, but some days you wait to get the second dollar to buy the more expensive apply.

How often do you think you'll get to day three and buy the cheaper apple?

You're seeing it from the wrong point of view, Saran. Many people -want- to become demigods, but few manage. Why would those few then -not- want to become vernals too, it's the next logical step. Especially for someone who put so much time and effort into leveling up it would be a goal to reach for. But for exactly that one reason they are excluded for it: They -worked- to achieve their goal and as such can never reach it. As I said a few posts before, it's ironic in a sad way.

PS: It isn't an issue right now as all thrones are held by Seren/Celest but at any time an ascendant will have a surer hold of the throne than a demigod.

The amuzing part is that these demigods are the primary reason why ascendants can be raised so fast.

Just as a note remember an ascendant doesnt lose essence in domoths, can have 2 domoths, and gets domoths faster. Superior to demigod in every way with far far far less work.

On ascendance reforming: They made ascendants able to live a little better, not too bad.

On the ascendance skill: It was made to NOT be combat heavy, aegis alone already can cause major issues by making a high priority target damage kill immune.

On Demigods: Make it alot more likely to raise them to ascendant, OR use one of the different RP stuff for them, like the fates specialization to get minor buffs/effects.

Demigods arent so bad anymore either, they got a major nerf and now demigod warriors arent even borderline OP to most people. Demigod warriors were the largest issue for demigod anything and thats been resolved, other problems like xiels are the result of damage runes (and the fact elfen have insanely high stats even without domoths), not demigods.

It would depend on the quality of the individual apples. For example, day two, there is a cheap apple which you think is really worth the value. You buy it. Come day four, there aren't really any cheap apples which you think are worth the value. Day six comes, and you want to buy a more expensive apple.

You are also avoiding addressing the biggest part of our discontent. The fact that we are actually put at a disadvantage for something we did that others didn't do. Something that actually took time and effort. And now we have to pay for it by not even being given the opportunity to go further while everyone else can. Nejii was very, very fortunate that he ascended when he did.

And as Anisu points out, Domoths represent a large power income. Who does most of the work for that? Demigods and ascendants. Who is being left out of the power reward? Mainly demigods and ascendants.

@Malarious: Not only was ascendance not made combat heavy, it wasn't made anything heavy. Aegis is the best skill and it doesn't even make them "hp kill immune", just "highly hp kill resistant, particularly on warriors." It's a very good skill but it's hardly imbalancing as every side has noted.

@Saran: you keep talking about how things are, not how they should be. Demigods want, not unreasonably, to be an option for ascendance. Part of the fact they aren't is that ascendance is basically a promotion to demigod for a good mortal combatant. This is the reason they want it changed, you can't just present it as though it's a counterargument or something...

EDIT: I wouldn't use the power reward argument, particularly when we've been suggesting halfing the power gains, but eh.

Ascendance is largely flavour, wasnt made to do much else... its basically cult RP at this point

Remove the faster domoth stuff for ascendance (since they can already sit in domoths forever for no loss and can hold double seals). Faster greatly reduces the time to do anything.

On that note lower the available time to absolve.... greatly... its like 30 mins to absolve and you get 3 hours last I knew.

Honestly rather see demigods get their own flavour with paths or something than just be pre ascendants. Maybe a perk to actually ascend when you were a demi if it was REALLY necessary.. but I say lets bond to the fates! Wooo

Remove the faster time? You want to NERF ascendants? Right after outright admitting ascendance "wasn't made to do much else ... basically cult RP"? 40 minutes isn't enough time to flashpoint to a fight and take them out? REALLY?

And it's 30 minutes out of 60 to absolve, not 3 hours.

Please oh please, convert that into the months it takes to raise the power for a mortal ascendant and just see if you're going to get a resonable amount of mortals raised

Then find a better way than cheapening ascendant?

Also the tone of "Oh we did something that took time and effort" so you're saying that Sarrasri has not put in time and effort to assist Serenwilde?



Can you please like... reread, my posts are stating that the proposed change does nothing to change what is.

Further changes not the cost to raise would be required to make it worth it, or you can make it cheap enough that multiple demigods can be raised which then makes it less likely that others would be risen.


There also hasn't been a figure given for how cheap demigods should be in comparison to mortals.



Also saying that you deserve it more because you are raising the power may be true, however the people that work harder than you in other areas shouldn't be disadvantaged for their inability to participate in domoth.


Disclaimer: I have infact come to terms with the concept that I will not be demi or ascendant... like ever

You are STILL ignoring the part where we think BOTH mortals and demigods should have a chance to become an ascendant. Your arguments are basically "Demigods already have all those things. Let the mortals have a go" and "If you let demigods ascend, mortals will never ascend."

You had a few points in there, but I think that's the key point yes?

Let's take an actual example: Nejii and Sarrasri. Both have been in Serenwilde for a long time, both have done a lot for Seren. Had Serenwilde known how ascending worked that first time, do you think Nejii would have been raised? He wouldn't have. Not because he was less worthy than Sarrasri, or because he had done less for the Wilde or because he was the worse combatant, or because he was less active. No, simply for the fact that he bashed to demigod and Sarrasri did not. Nejii's ascention is what you call a "fluke" and he is extremely lucky for it.

Cheapening ascention costs for demigods may not be the only solution, but it definitely is one that would help even the playing field between mortals and demigods as far as the decision on whom to raise is concerened. Right now.. there is no decision to be made. There is -no- reason to raise a demigod at all. However, being a demigod is not something you can become/unbecome with a cameo. It is something you -earn- and even work hard to earn. Why should those that put the effort for this personal achievement in be automatically excluded -because- they did it?

What the proposed change would do is this: Let's assume for a moment that raising a demigod to vernal only costs 500k power as opposed to 1m power for a mortal. Serenwilde has 1m available for ascention, 2 demigods and 1 mortal on the list. Quite frankly, the chances would -still- be in favour of the mortal for the reason that that would be one more person that can enter the domoths. However, if two demigods are raised instead they could gain a surer hold on the thrones -and- hold more thrones than they are able to now. Additionally, the individual capabilities of the charakters would have to be thought about. At a time where thrones are actually fought over, this might be worth consideration.

Right now, that decision simply doesn't exist at all. I'm not saying that lessening the cost to raise demigods is going to solve all issues, but it would be a step in the right direction and at least help to even the playing field here. If I had to compare this issue to real life (and dramatize it a bit) I would say that we are roughly situated in the 18-19th century with the demigods being people with a "black" skin colour and mortals being "white".

The leap from demigod to vernal ascended should be proportional to the power difference. 1/4-1/2 the power required would probably do it.

Considering the rate at which demigods come about, significantly cheapening the cost would be a big deal. The Vernal Ascendant system should be balanced in such a way that ascending a demigod is a viable choice when compared to ascending a mortal. The most obvious way of doing this is balancing out the power cost so that raising a mortal is not the obvious optimal choice. That's all.

I just think it's ironic that (and you can decide if this is a problem with reforming, or more likely with druids) I was more effective at level 85 than as a VA. I hate to be pessimistic, but it's pretty much true.

Well, to be fair, druids don't get as much of an advantage from the stat boosts. Extra STR, DEX, and CHA are meaningless for combat, Cudgel still doesn't really see the same significant impact from high end INT as other caster attacks, so that leaves CON.

If you have a lot of other demi/ascendants to back you up, it will be useful. Otherwise if you're in a situation where you'll still be dying fast, and everyone around you will die even faster, then you're going to run into trouble.

And the answer to the demi problem is obviously that they all should just heart stop until they are level 90 again, so they are eligible. More specifically, do it only when Saran is online.