Unknown2008-07-16 18:30:18
Shamarah is my hero. ANd given that I just woke up I will have something more constructive presently.
Unknown2008-07-16 18:43:20
Fifth Official Vote Count
Lynch Votes:
(9 For Lynch)
Silvanus: 5 Votes (daganev, arix, silferras, lorick, rika)
Shiri: 3 Votes (silvanus, visaeris, shamarah)
Requiem: 2 Votes (shiri, thul)
Daganev: 1 Vote (othero)
Archer2: 1 Vote (zetsu)
Leader Nomination:
(9 For Election)
Visaeris: 5 Votes (visaeris, zetsu, shamarah, arix, othero)
Daganev: 2 Votes (daganev, archer2)
Silvanus: 1 Vote (silvanus)
Amarysse: 1 Vote (rika)
(Please tell me if any of this is incorrect.)
Unknown2008-07-16 19:00:33
How was that quoted bit scummy and wishy-washy? I was listing my own reasons for suspecting that Silvanus was scum, and pointing out how and why, despite his defense of his slipups, he still seemed scummy to me.
In any case, Shamarah's point about bandwagons building quickly on townies and much more slowly on mafia makes sense. Taking that into account, an Unvote: Silvanus is in order.
I'd also like to hear better explanations from Archer2. Like it was pointed out, his vote jumped wildly within consecutive posts with minimal reasoning, if any - he voted Daganev, unvoted and voted him for leader, voted Silvanus, then unvoted and voted Requiem before unvoting yet again. If he's as indifferent to who is nominated to be leader for the claimed reasons, why Daganev, who he voted to lynch immediately before the nomination post?
Vote: Archer2
In any case, Shamarah's point about bandwagons building quickly on townies and much more slowly on mafia makes sense. Taking that into account, an Unvote: Silvanus is in order.
I'd also like to hear better explanations from Archer2. Like it was pointed out, his vote jumped wildly within consecutive posts with minimal reasoning, if any - he voted Daganev, unvoted and voted him for leader, voted Silvanus, then unvoted and voted Requiem before unvoting yet again. If he's as indifferent to who is nominated to be leader for the claimed reasons, why Daganev, who he voted to lynch immediately before the nomination post?
Vote: Archer2
Unknown2008-07-16 19:02:02
QUOTE(Archer2 @ Jul 16 2008, 06:47 AM) 533679
After further consideration, I'm going to UNvote: Daganev and Vote Daganev for Leader.
Because it feels right, and I'm still very open to discussion about it.
Because it feels right, and I'm still very open to discussion about it.
"it feels right"? What the hell is this? You turn around and go from voting against to voting for, because it feels right?
QUOTE(Archer2 @ Jul 16 2008, 07:00 AM) 533686
I don't trust Visaeris as a matter of principle. He's way too used to being deceptive and smart to trust like that and on my scale of "Towniness" he always starts on a suspicious note. As things move on, I usually get more of a sense of where he's at though, so my vote for leader is very likely to change. Also, the fact that Silvanus gave him his money could mean that if Silvanus is scum, he's giving his resources to one of his collegues. I doubt he'd be that foolish though.
Also, it looks like Silvanus's position is unresolvable right now and in the interest of progress I'm going to Vote: Silvanus .
Sorry guy, maybe if you're Town you'll get rezzed by someone, but things have to be done.
Also, it looks like Silvanus's position is unresolvable right now and in the interest of progress I'm going to Vote: Silvanus .
Sorry guy, maybe if you're Town you'll get rezzed by someone, but things have to be done.
What.
Did you even read the discussion? Silvanus proved his position. He gave me the 48 gold he claimed he had. He also attempted to give me his hooker attire which forced a rule change. A rule change implemented *AFTER* he tried, so he couldn't have known.
Furthermore, as a general point, you people need to get over your hardon for the hate train on me. Look at every game i've played. I've taken the exact same posting style and the exact same aggressive, logic based approach to assessing people's posts. It'll always be that way, and if that's a source of perpetual suspicion then I guess I'm boned.
In any case, Silvanus has cleared himself. He gave me the clothes pre-rule, which meant that he knew they'd clear him for his hooker role. So we know he's ahooker. He's either scum or town, with one caveat: Either he and I are both scum, or he and I are both town. I think it's safe to assume that he probably wouldn't have given me the clothes if I was on an opposing team (or the gold for that matter).
So here's where I offer my affirmative defense, because the perpetual suspicion of myself
Role PMs went out at about 3pm, and I posted my roleclaim at 3:20. It is a roleclaim that is a paraphrase of my roleclaim, a specifically obfuscated claim leaving out stuff I didn't realise mattered(which I still don't think it does) like "reason for the journey"(gold) and "motivation"(In it for myself). This roleclaim was also an attempt at a bit of roleplaying, which continues for the next however many posts until I get bored and go back to quoting people and using poster names. Some of the claim (the part about wyrms, wyverns, whatever) was just a bit of rhetoric for some fun roleplay.
I then further elaborated as requested, used some rhetoric, but the whole time my position has been consistent. If you don't believe that, you need to reread it and pull out a thesaurus! Yesterday at 11:10 I posted a full, completely paraphrased roleclaim after checking with the mod to make sure that wouldn't get too close to the copy/paste rule. It remains internally consistent with my posting and my positions.
So there you have it. I am town, and by extension that makes it very likely that Silvanus is as well.
But moving on to the topic at hand, I think Shiri and Archer2 are both suspicious. I'm sticking with my vote on Shiri.
Daganev2008-07-16 19:11:58
Ok, me am going to vote: Shiri
Me saw Archer2's posts in dat he did not finish reading all the posts before he posted. He seemed to post after reading say, 2 or 3 pages, den he would comment, den he would go read some more etc. But yes me see him as scummy as well.
Me reasons before, plus Shamarah's reasons seem a good reason to finally commit to voting for Shiri.
Me saw Archer2's posts in dat he did not finish reading all the posts before he posted. He seemed to post after reading say, 2 or 3 pages, den he would comment, den he would go read some more etc. But yes me see him as scummy as well.
Me reasons before, plus Shamarah's reasons seem a good reason to finally commit to voting for Shiri.
Daganev2008-07-16 19:12:48
Silvanus claimed to have 50 gold, den he gave ye 48 gold... seems odd to me.
Silvanus2008-07-16 19:14:35
Yes, I did have 50 gold. Visaeris now has 48 gold.
I have two gold left, just in case I lived through that day. (Note, that's me keeping 4% of what was given to me).
I have two gold left, just in case I lived through that day. (Note, that's me keeping 4% of what was given to me).
Thul2008-07-16 19:15:26
It's hard to get a read on Rika, because... well, she seemingly never posts. This is regardless of role, and has been consistent for her in all the games I'm aware of. This is unhelpful, irritating, and dangerous if she's scum, but not necessarily an indicator as far as she's concerned.
Silferras's post in Shamarah's quote looks reasonably helpful to me, actually. There's some reasonable cause for suspicion there, and let's face it, we haven't had anything really solid to work on.
Archer... when did people start talking about "progress" like that? Didn't notice until Shamarah pointed it out, but it's a little odd how both Rika and Archer use it as a voting criterion in dubious circumstances.
I'd like to keep up some pressure on Requiem, here, and I'm leaving my vote on him at present. He had better come through with something when he gets back. I personally dislike these sort of stall maneuvers, even when they're genuine. Three scum used it to duck heat in my last game, so I'm not inclined to look on that maneuver favorably.
I'd be switching to Archer right now, otherwise, as he looks the most suspicious. Even accounting for newbie panic. Not so certain about a Shiri connection, though... I'll have to look that over myself.
Silferras's post in Shamarah's quote looks reasonably helpful to me, actually. There's some reasonable cause for suspicion there, and let's face it, we haven't had anything really solid to work on.
Archer... when did people start talking about "progress" like that? Didn't notice until Shamarah pointed it out, but it's a little odd how both Rika and Archer use it as a voting criterion in dubious circumstances.
I'd like to keep up some pressure on Requiem, here, and I'm leaving my vote on him at present. He had better come through with something when he gets back. I personally dislike these sort of stall maneuvers, even when they're genuine. Three scum used it to duck heat in my last game, so I'm not inclined to look on that maneuver favorably.
I'd be switching to Archer right now, otherwise, as he looks the most suspicious. Even accounting for newbie panic. Not so certain about a Shiri connection, though... I'll have to look that over myself.
Daganev2008-07-16 19:19:38
QUOTE(Thul @ Jul 16 2008, 12:15 PM) 533795
I'd like to keep up some pressure on Requiem, here, and I'm leaving my vote on him at present. He had better come through with something when he gets back. I personally dislike these sort of stall maneuvers, even when they're genuine. Three scum used it to duck heat in my last game, so I'm not inclined to look on that maneuver favorably.
It was more like 3 scum got unlucky in that they needed to stall for real life reasons and that got them stuck. Its what they do after they stall that should lead one to question them or not. Espeically if there is no pressure on them when they do the stalling.
Silvanus2008-07-16 19:20:11
QUOTE(Shamarah @ Jul 16 2008, 01:04 PM) 533772
I think Shiri is acting the most suspicious and lynch-worthy of anyone in the game at the moment. He was pushing very hard for Silvanus's lynch, and all of a sudden decided to change his mind. Admittedly, Visaeris did the same thing too, but I found Visaeris's change of heart a bit more believeable, given that he was actively arguing with Silvanus whereas Shiri's just seemed to come out of the blue. This post in particular stuck out at me:
Shiri knows what he's doing, and I know he knows when to abandon a lost cause. Personally, I'm doubtful that Silvanus will be lynched today, and I think it was fairly apparent that he wouldn't be once everyone started accepting his roleclaim (which I think seems fairly valid, really). The above post looks to me like Shiri realizing that people were starting to think Silvanus was innocent and it was time for him to back off and look for a new target in order to avoid looking too scummy.
This is admittedly mostly intuition and just my scumdar pinging, but it's really all I have to go on at the moment. Also, this particular exchange of posts interested me:
This really sounds to me like a scum trying to warn another scum to back off, since they probably aren't allowed to talk during the night. If one of those two comes up scum at any point, I've got my eye on the other.
For now, I'm going to Vote: Shiri.
As for leader, I still think Visaeris is the best choice:
Shiri knows what he's doing, and I know he knows when to abandon a lost cause. Personally, I'm doubtful that Silvanus will be lynched today, and I think it was fairly apparent that he wouldn't be once everyone started accepting his roleclaim (which I think seems fairly valid, really). The above post looks to me like Shiri realizing that people were starting to think Silvanus was innocent and it was time for him to back off and look for a new target in order to avoid looking too scummy.
This is admittedly mostly intuition and just my scumdar pinging, but it's really all I have to go on at the moment. Also, this particular exchange of posts interested me:
This really sounds to me like a scum trying to warn another scum to back off, since they probably aren't allowed to talk during the night. If one of those two comes up scum at any point, I've got my eye on the other.
For now, I'm going to Vote: Shiri.
As for leader, I still think Visaeris is the best choice:
- If he's town, great! We now have an unlynchable and difficult-to-nightkill townie with whatever benefits the leader role provides.
- If we decide he's scum, he is almost certainly lying about the NK resistance (as scum with that kind of resistance would be hideously broken in a game with this elected leader role) and we have a vig kill him.
Did you mean allowed to talk during the day?
Because I think there is a rule that says they can talk during the night (if their role permits it, but let me double check on those rules after this post).
Unknown2008-07-16 19:20:55
Woah, woah, woah.
Give me a moment, I'm chomping on lasanga and want to finish it quickly before I write my responese.
Give me a moment, I'm chomping on lasanga and want to finish it quickly before I write my responese.
Shamarah2008-07-16 19:22:15
QUOTE(Silvanus @ Jul 16 2008, 03:20 PM) 533797
Did you mean allowed to talk during the day?
Because I think there is a rule that says they can talk during the night (if their role permits it, but let me double check on those rules after this post).
Because I think there is a rule that says they can talk during the night (if their role permits it, but let me double check on those rules after this post).
Oops, yeah.
Unknown2008-07-16 19:22:49
QUOTE(daganev @ Jul 16 2008, 12:12 PM) 533792
Silvanus claimed to have 50 gold, den he gave ye 48 gold... seems odd to me.
Oh yeah he did. Well, I'm ok with him hanging onto the two
GIVE 48 GOLD TO SILVANUS
Promised I would and he seems to be safe.
QUOTE(Thul @ Jul 16 2008, 12:15 PM) 533795
It's hard to get a read on Rika, because... well, she seemingly never posts. This is regardless of role, and has been consistent for her in all the games I'm aware of. This is unhelpful, irritating, and dangerous if she's scum, but not necessarily an indicator as far as she's concerned.
Seriously. It's getting really old that she does this in every game, and I know she's active on the forums/in Lusternia. She needs to start participating.
Daganev2008-07-16 19:23:58
QUOTE(Silvanus @ Jul 16 2008, 12:14 PM) 533793
Yes, I did have 50 gold. Visaeris now has 48 gold.
I have two gold left, just in case I lived through that day. (Note, that's me keeping 4% of what was given to me).
I have two gold left, just in case I lived through that day. (Note, that's me keeping 4% of what was given to me).
I'm really not sure what giving somebody gold proves. especially such a small amount like 48 gold. How is keeping 2 gold going to help at all?
Sure its a clever way to get someone to trust ye, and it worked on Visaeris, but really, it proves nothing.
Ye might have 548 gold and decided to give 48 gold over to even it out. What does it matter dat ye kept 4% of yer gold? Is 4% some secret number?
Me did not think it odd that ye gave 48 gold before. What me found odd was that Visaeris was using the fact that ye gave him 48 gold, and then said, that ye claimed to have 48 gold (which ye never did), and that this was some sort of proof.
If Visaeris gives ye dat 48 gold back, are ye now going to have yer wench powers stuck on him? Can we trust d'leader to be indebted to the hooker?
Daganev2008-07-16 19:27:52
GAH! ... Now Visaeris is really stuck! :facepalm: Can't believe ye gave Silvanus d'gold back!
*swoon* *faint*
Now Visaeris is REALLY unsafe as a leader.
*swoon* *faint*
Now Visaeris is REALLY unsafe as a leader.
Unknown2008-07-16 19:28:51
QUOTE(daganev @ Jul 16 2008, 12:27 PM) 533804
GAH! ... Now Visaeris is really stuck! :facepalm: Can't believe ye gave Silvanus d'gold back!
*swoon* *faint*
Now Visaeris is REALLY unsafe as a leader.
*swoon* *faint*
Now Visaeris is REALLY unsafe as a leader.
Don't be stupid.
Unknown2008-07-16 19:30:02
And in any case, the gold is irrelevant Daganev. The fact that he gave me the hooker attire is a clincher, as far as I'm concerned.
Daganev2008-07-16 19:31:27
QUOTE(Silvanus @ Jul 15 2008, 04:00 PM) 533199
...
To further more go on why i think I am best suited for the leadership role. While Visaeris has some use as a night ability(perhaps), my only use is sleeping with people, and in that you have to give me gold to get my ability to work, which is very satisfying indeed. I am Bianca (did Balizar name me after Celina?), I'm a prostitute who's just looking for gold and good lays.
I can buy some hooker attire for fifty gold, which will make my sexaul prowess all the more alluring and aide us in getting to where we need to go.
To further more go on why i think I am best suited for the leadership role. While Visaeris has some use as a night ability(perhaps), my only use is sleeping with people, and in that you have to give me gold to get my ability to work, which is very satisfying indeed. I am Bianca (did Balizar name me after Celina?), I'm a prostitute who's just looking for gold and good lays.
I can buy some hooker attire for fifty gold, which will make my sexaul prowess all the more alluring and aide us in getting to where we need to go.
Who's being stupid now?....
Daganev2008-07-16 19:32:00
oops, dat font was larger den me expected... sorry.
Unknown2008-07-16 19:32:15
Ok, I'm going to be honest: I skimmed the thread, so it's very probable that I only caught a wiff of the real essence of exchanges and discussions. Catching up on 17 pages of stuff was a bit daunting and I posted originally when I had read like the first 2 pages or so.
Then, I read a little more, thought things over a little and made a hasty decision, because I thought my oringal post wasn't helpful at all. At that time, I was afraid I wouldn't be around too long so kept changing my mind about things. I'm back now and have more time right now, so I realise I did look very fishy and flip-floppish. It seems that I did miss some very important details.
I do not know if Shiri is scum or not, I am not.
I'm gonna be honest, this is probably the Day 1 with the most discussion I've seen in a mafia here, so I was probably in the wrong "mode", if you will. I should be more thoughtful in the future.
To Vis: I'm not on a hate train for you. I like you, but I know you're tricky so I just thought it was best if you weren't Leader. You seem like Town right now though, and I may vote for you yet.
"It feels right" just meant that it looked like it was going to be either you or Dag and me not voting would've only slowed things down. Choosing between you and Dag, I choose Dag for the afromentioned reasons. That's probably a misquided reason to choose, so I'll Unvote Daganev for Leader and reserve that vote for later.
Then, I read a little more, thought things over a little and made a hasty decision, because I thought my oringal post wasn't helpful at all. At that time, I was afraid I wouldn't be around too long so kept changing my mind about things. I'm back now and have more time right now, so I realise I did look very fishy and flip-floppish. It seems that I did miss some very important details.
I do not know if Shiri is scum or not, I am not.
I'm gonna be honest, this is probably the Day 1 with the most discussion I've seen in a mafia here, so I was probably in the wrong "mode", if you will. I should be more thoughtful in the future.
To Vis: I'm not on a hate train for you. I like you, but I know you're tricky so I just thought it was best if you weren't Leader. You seem like Town right now though, and I may vote for you yet.
"It feels right" just meant that it looked like it was going to be either you or Dag and me not voting would've only slowed things down. Choosing between you and Dag, I choose Dag for the afromentioned reasons. That's probably a misquided reason to choose, so I'll Unvote Daganev for Leader and reserve that vote for later.
