How much honour is it to welcome back a cast-out? I know adopting/marrying/bloodbonding is 15 points. I reckon casting out should cost either double or triple the amount of points it takes to welcome them back. 100 points is a bit too much.

If you think about this realistically...

If you "disown" someone from your family, people will look down at you.

If you pop out two babies within the next year, they forget about it.

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If you think about this game-wise...

I say that while the emotional RP scarring would last on the person who was kicked out, if they have that personality, that disowning a person should be -20.

Unless, of course, you can put in some sort of awesome game mechanics where:

1) You don't lose family honor for killing someone who declared you/attacked you first
2) Those who consistently bring dishonor upon the family (maybe 30+ points worth?) will not bring more dishonor by being kicked out.

Just my idea. Take it, leave it, love it, hate it.

I wonder if it would be possible to have the dishonor follow the person. So if you get kicked out of a family you cost it some small amount, like 10-20, but when you are accepted by a new family they actually lose honor, perhaps 20+.

So this would fix the "exploit" of kicking someone out and bringing them back in over and over. This would also cause the "dishonored" person to actually have a personal consequence for their actions. If they wished to join a new family they would have to do something to show that they would make up for the loss of honor.

I am not sure the admins would want to track this extra data (though it would just be one new flag) but I think it is a nice solution.

Coming from a large family myself, which has a lot of influence in the circles it runs, that has actually disowned someone, if that person has some how tarnished the family name, I have noticed disowning them tends to increase the worth of the name.

I have seen this happen first hand in my family. Now obviously the mechanics would make that unwise, as it would allow farming to easily, but I do not see why the big negative.

JoinDiodorusPlz? Kialie likes you. Make happy with the wife so we can adopt?

Great Houses can't opt out of the Great House system, and that's not something we'll change.

Ideas for tweaking the Great House system is fine though!

I have to say, reading all this makes me glad the L'Eternaes aren't likely to be that big for a long, long, long, long time if ever.

I agree with you Laysus, we get to play without the hassle.

Fania had actually suggested you two, but said she was not sure if you two were looking so I've been eyeballing ya'll quietly LOL
The other two I've been considering for my Celestine was Telperion, but I haven't really had the chance to meet his wife much, same with Caleb who's asked.

Hehe, pwease pick us? You remind Kial so much of himself as a 'mancer.

Could the "boot button" check the log or something and if someone has repeatedly caused losses of honour the loss for removing them be scaled down until it becomes a reward?

Just for the record, Munsia was not kicked for "causing loss of honour". In truth, since the Honour system went in, the combined total loss of Honour for PK was least caused by Munsia. She had more than any other person, but she was not the largest cause of PK honour loss. She was kicked for other reasons.

For...being Munsia?

To be fair, that IS a legitimate reason

Just wait till Serella gets married and has tons of little faeling kiddies... mwehehe.

Guys, do what estarra said and make bulletpoint references to what you want changed. Estarra loves bullet points >.>

Ok, though I do have a lot of problems with the system, I think that they can be expressed in this idea:

In a lot of features of the game, it's roleplay vs mechanics. We already have plenty of ways to get cultural points, as people have said, and this mechanic becomes more peripheral and annoying because it's hardly central in the function of the game. That said, I would be happy to see all of these mechanics and buffs removed and replaced with more objects of roleplay. Perhaps there can be more positions put within the family (members of a family council-like thing, or certain heirlooms or artifacts assigned to these roles, or (especially), abilities to construct areas or things belonging to the family in cities/communes where they have influence, according to honour points. Honour doesn't have to be mechanically competitive, competition can lie in roleplay as well, which is what I would really like to endorse.

This was the case...before they implemented a buggy, poorly thought out system which forced it to become a mechanic. However, since it's been implemented, the "role play" of it is now -forced- around the system. That's how a system works, it sets absolute rules that you then work with to generate your roleplay.

Over and above the fact that I'm not happy that someone else can kick out my family (I'd have no problem with other options - like being able to mute them on the family channels, ban use of news boards, or even having "disownment" just give an influence penalty or the like), the honour loss for it is patently unreasonable.



The entire system as a whole would be improved if family honour was simply the sum of personal honour, and certain events either gained, or reduced your personal honour - and, for that matter, if it was slightly more subjective. If your honour was relative to each organization.

For example, let's say you do the Acknor/Estelbar conflict quest, stealing furrikin from Estelbar, and bringing them as slaves to Acknor. This might increase your honour with groups that approve of, or endorse slavery (Glomdoring and Magnagora), while simultaneously reducing it in others (Celest and Serenwilde). Others might have their honour depend on who currently holds a village - let's say you did the Angkrag quest while Magnagora held Angkrag, and Serenwilde and Glomdoring held Southgard and Rockholm. Killing dwarves in those villages would reduce your honour with the respective organizations, and when you turned them in to Angkrag, increase it with Magnagora. Yet others might give you general honour, and specific honour - let's say Glomdoring holds Angkrag this time, and you go down and beat their drunken orc with a posse of skeletons. Glomdoring likes you more as a result, since you're getting their workers, well, back to work. While Magnagora would like you more because they approve of "strongarm tactics," where Celest might disapprove, and Serenwilde be neutral on it (don't bite my head off for the example Serenwilders).

Other ones might include the Tainted Broadcast Center - when you fix it, your organization likes you more, where the other three like you less. Offering to -any- god aligned with a city improves your honour with that city, and any city that god has allied orders in more, and lowers it with any city that the god's opposed order is aligned with. For example, let's say Fain and Viravain are allied, but Fain and Lisaera are enemies. You offer to Fain (even if he isn't your family patron), and your honour rises with Magnagora and Glomdoring, and lowers in Serenwilde.


Now, since the sum of the family honour is a result of all the personal honour of active family members, and you have relative honour based on organization, who you invite, and evict from your family begins to matter. If you're a neutral family, or one spread across multiple organizations, you want people in good standing with as many as possible. Or at least, who aren't going to -harm- your influence too much. Where, if you're a single-organization family, you can focus instead on people who regularly, and actively try to benefit their organization - and who cares what the rest of the basin thinks of you.

Now, under this system, I would suggest a "primary allied organization," and "secondary allied organizations," where the primary gets full culture benefits from your relative family honour in that organization, and secondaries get one half, or one quarter of the benefits of relative culture. You are not required to have a primary allied organization, and you can have as many secondaries as you can get.

This way, families can influence multiple organizations to varying degrees, there's a benefit to the organization for even accepting smaller families, as long as they are still honourable to them. It lets single-org families specialize, and pull further ahead in the one area (like gaining more benefits from that organiation as a result) than multi-org families, but also allowing multi-organization families to still gain honour overall. This means that kicking someone out of your family, or inviting them in doesn't have set consequences - you might gain honour, you might lose honour....and most likely, both gain, and lose honour.

Now, in this system, I wouldn't let individuals see exact honour scores - you have a general sense of how honourable you are, but you don't know you have 17 personal honour in Magnagora, and -30 in Celest. Similarly, families only have a general sense of their honour in an organization. You can get a general feel for if kicking someone out is good or bad for your family, while still having the flexibility of not being a walking calculator of everything that person has ever said/done.

Xanatov? xD

Wut?