Revan2008-08-01 18:15:12
@aison: Why not just do the globglob quest and quit your tears?
Kaalak2008-08-01 18:19:26
A few comments
+ First of all Lendren your imagination is gold. I like the transmitter-blocker and battery idea.
+ @ Rika: Yes, to echo Greleag, people in Magnagora WOULD complete a quest that temporarily removes the taint (or permanently removes the taint from something non-useful) for an advantage. It is simply pragmatism.
To begin with I really don't have an issue with this quest in general. Since conflict quests were removed, if you wanted to add a cooldown to successfully completing the broadcast center I could see that. I'd make it 4 or 5 hours though, not 48.
The biggest thing that would irritate me is this.
That seems like peanuts to me. Up the reward for shutting doing the counter quest to make it a bit more attractive for mid-high level players to make it worth their time. If you can prevent two people on opposite factions from gaming the system to pump out benefits for each other.
Alternatively I like the idea of making the scholars/bards giving more power/gold to the organization that completed the quest. Or keep it how it is and allow the scholars/bards to be influenced (paranoia against Globglob?) so they can be lead to any organization.
If there is a scholars/bards nerf I'd say a cooldown for the quest should be very minor, a few hours at most.
+ First of all Lendren your imagination is gold. I like the transmitter-blocker and battery idea.
+ @ Rika: Yes, to echo Greleag, people in Magnagora WOULD complete a quest that temporarily removes the taint (or permanently removes the taint from something non-useful) for an advantage. It is simply pragmatism.
To begin with I really don't have an issue with this quest in general. Since conflict quests were removed, if you wanted to add a cooldown to successfully completing the broadcast center I could see that. I'd make it 4 or 5 hours though, not 48.
The biggest thing that would irritate me is this.
QUOTE(Sarrasri @ Aug 1 2008, 10:31 AM) 539476
Anyways, the TBC quest is quite annoying and I groan IRL every time I hear him at the nexus because I know it'll be annoying to take him down again, get nothing but some karma for it, and know that in an hour's time once Norchatine is alive again that it can be done again if someone wants to.
That seems like peanuts to me. Up the reward for shutting doing the counter quest to make it a bit more attractive for mid-high level players to make it worth their time. If you can prevent two people on opposite factions from gaming the system to pump out benefits for each other.
Alternatively I like the idea of making the scholars/bards giving more power/gold to the organization that completed the quest. Or keep it how it is and allow the scholars/bards to be influenced (paranoia against Globglob?) so they can be lead to any organization.
If there is a scholars/bards nerf I'd say a cooldown for the quest should be very minor, a few hours at most.
Aison2008-08-01 18:21:07
Thing is, removal of Taint permanently isn't possible. Even Estarra can't do it herself. Aquamancers can cleanse it, but Geomancer taint is somewhat superficial. Lendren's idea is great (go see his plays!), and I think something could definitely come from it.
Kaalak2008-08-01 18:23:54
QUOTE(Aison @ Aug 1 2008, 11:21 AM) 539499
Thing is, removal of Taint permanently isn't possible. Even Estarra can't do it herself. Aquamancers can cleanse it, but Geomancer taint is somewhat superficial. Lendren's idea is great (go see his plays!), and I think something could definitely come from it.
Let me put it another way. Magnagora would be like that guy who sells a bunch of stuff he doesn't need around the house on ebay so he can save up for that Corvette.
Aison2008-08-01 18:26:21
I don't speak eBuy...
Unknown2008-08-01 18:50:50
Hmmm... this quest isn't city banned.
Eeexcellent
(though blocking off a source of exp and income for 3/4 of the game's newbies is still pretty lame and dickish =S ... Celest would be none the better even if we did do it)
Eeexcellent
(though blocking off a source of exp and income for 3/4 of the game's newbies is still pretty lame and dickish =S ... Celest would be none the better even if we did do it)
Silvanus2008-08-01 18:53:01
It's really, really easy to level up in Lusternia.
Especially for newbies and lowbies, they don't need bards and scholars (I don't even know how to do bards and scholars). Bards and Scholars are a new addition to Lusternia, the newbies survived before without them and they'll survive again without them.
Especially for newbies and lowbies, they don't need bards and scholars (I don't even know how to do bards and scholars). Bards and Scholars are a new addition to Lusternia, the newbies survived before without them and they'll survive again without them.
Diamondais2008-08-01 18:53:56
QUOTE(Silvanus @ Aug 1 2008, 02:53 PM) 539513
It's really, really easy to level up in Lusternia.
Especially for newbies and lowbies, they don't need bards and scholars (I don't even know how to do bards and scholars). Bards and Scholars are a new addition to Lusternia, the newbies survived before without them and they'll survive again without them.
Especially for newbies and lowbies, they don't need bards and scholars (I don't even know how to do bards and scholars). Bards and Scholars are a new addition to Lusternia, the newbies survived before without them and they'll survive again without them.
Same as pilgrims!
Unknown2008-08-01 19:00:59
Time for a random sad statement:
While I did use bards, pilgrims, and scholars to level from 40 - 50, I used pixies (commune quest) to level from out of newton to 39.
However, I am insane, and this should not count.
While I did use bards, pilgrims, and scholars to level from 40 - 50, I used pixies (commune quest) to level from out of newton to 39.
However, I am insane, and this should not count.
Aison2008-08-01 19:08:12
Bards and scholars aren't really a 'new addition' anymore, considering they've been around since before I started playing, over a year ago. They were implemented to make leveling easier. It's obviously a lot more difficult just after the Newton Caverns, and not everyone has access to quests like the Supplicants - and even then, that quest is almost always occupied. Other alternatives to leveling and gold-gaining shouldn't be shunned.
edit: a PM I received:
edit: a PM I received:
QUOTE
After some thought, I've decided on a neat alternative, that I think is incredibly fitting:
I would like to see the Marani Veloske quest changed. Marani hates the Viscanti of the Presidio, and she despises Magnagora (being a former high priestess of the Fatalists and all). As such, I would like a quest where she can be summoned to spitefully annoy Magnagorans (and maybe Glomdorians if Serens do it?). While in the mountains or the Presidio, she will leech their power with her song. This effect is magnified in the Presidio itself hitting at double speed. However, this song will have no impact on Celest or Serenwilde as long as one of the two raises her.
Now to be fair, Magnagora and Glomdoring can also raise Marani, but if they do so, she's very upset with them, and in her rage, her song harms everyone equally. As Revan and his fellow crew are not "locked into roleplay," I'm sure they can come up with a fabulous reason on why they should raise her. She may be anti-Taint, anti-Viscanti, anti-Demon Lord, anti-Nihilist, anti-Presidio, etc... but seriously, you can bs an awesome reason and go with it!
Likewise, Marani would lose her "goes crazy after X days and starts randomly attacking everyone" feature. She would gain an annoying counter quest (like Globglob) where she could be weakened somewhat.
Thoughts?
I would like to see the Marani Veloske quest changed. Marani hates the Viscanti of the Presidio, and she despises Magnagora (being a former high priestess of the Fatalists and all). As such, I would like a quest where she can be summoned to spitefully annoy Magnagorans (and maybe Glomdorians if Serens do it?). While in the mountains or the Presidio, she will leech their power with her song. This effect is magnified in the Presidio itself hitting at double speed. However, this song will have no impact on Celest or Serenwilde as long as one of the two raises her.
Now to be fair, Magnagora and Glomdoring can also raise Marani, but if they do so, she's very upset with them, and in her rage, her song harms everyone equally. As Revan and his fellow crew are not "locked into roleplay," I'm sure they can come up with a fabulous reason on why they should raise her. She may be anti-Taint, anti-Viscanti, anti-Demon Lord, anti-Nihilist, anti-Presidio, etc... but seriously, you can bs an awesome reason and go with it!
Likewise, Marani would lose her "goes crazy after X days and starts randomly attacking everyone" feature. She would gain an annoying counter quest (like Globglob) where she could be weakened somewhat.
Thoughts?
Silvanus2008-08-01 19:12:52
Every village has an honors quest.
You have a water plane/elemental plane.
There are cows and chickens along the road.
There are those rocs or whatever alongside the mountains.
If somebody is relying on scholars/bards to level up then they haven't even explored Lusternia. So please, stop using the "think of the newbies," because there's a lot of places for the newbies to go.
You have a water plane/elemental plane.
There are cows and chickens along the road.
There are those rocs or whatever alongside the mountains.
If somebody is relying on scholars/bards to level up then they haven't even explored Lusternia. So please, stop using the "think of the newbies," because there's a lot of places for the newbies to go.
Aison2008-08-01 19:16:04
That still doesn't provide a solid reason why the TBC affects them. Aside of the leveling and gold-gaining, it brings power to each nexus, which village quests do not do. Yeah, there are alternatives - but not everyone knows how to do village quests, or understands how to quest at newbie levels. Gathering chickens, cows, and sheep are plausible - but those quests don't bring in any power.
Silvanus2008-08-01 19:17:25
QUOTE(Aison @ Aug 1 2008, 02:16 PM) 539529
That still doesn't provide a solid reason why the TBC affects them. Aside of the leveling and gold-gaining, it brings power to each nexus, which village quests do not do. Yeah, there are alternatives - but not everyone knows how to do village quests, or understands how to quest at newbie levels. Gathering chickens, cows, and sheep are plausible - but those quests don't bring in any power.
You just answered your own question.
If you can teach somebody how to do scholars and bards you can teach them how to get your cities comms.
Lendren2008-08-01 19:18:55
As deliberately obtuse and pig-headed as it is every time the Magnagorans insist we should just do the quest at them, there's actually something to it.
The many and sundry annoyances that result from the quest, each taken in isolation, can be seen as "no big deal", something you can just deal with the same way people deal with other annoyances all over the game. In fact, that illusion of a collection of trivialities is no doubt behind the administration's actions in designing, approving, and not dismantling the quest, and in dismissing the criticisms of its poor design. Each individual criticism seems minor, taken out of context.
We can't force the administration to endure from a mortal viewpoint the perfect storm of annoyance, the synergy of irritation that comes from all the various issues of the quest put together simultaneously, repeated indefinitely. But if we force Magnagora to endure all of that a half-dozen times over a few days, I bet they'll all come around and be posting rants as bad as ours (along with elaborate rationalizations for why they're not saying anything different from what they said all along).
Maybe that unified front would get the administration to reconsider.
The many and sundry annoyances that result from the quest, each taken in isolation, can be seen as "no big deal", something you can just deal with the same way people deal with other annoyances all over the game. In fact, that illusion of a collection of trivialities is no doubt behind the administration's actions in designing, approving, and not dismantling the quest, and in dismissing the criticisms of its poor design. Each individual criticism seems minor, taken out of context.
We can't force the administration to endure from a mortal viewpoint the perfect storm of annoyance, the synergy of irritation that comes from all the various issues of the quest put together simultaneously, repeated indefinitely. But if we force Magnagora to endure all of that a half-dozen times over a few days, I bet they'll all come around and be posting rants as bad as ours (along with elaborate rationalizations for why they're not saying anything different from what they said all along).
Maybe that unified front would get the administration to reconsider.
Unknown2008-08-01 19:19:54
I never did the 'lead x to y' quests when playing on my main, but on my alts the pilgrims/bards/scholars were an awesome way of quickly leveling up and earning gold (from level 1 up to perhaps 30). But besides that it is still very easy to level up to at least 60 - if you know what you're doing. Though really, we're all speaking from the point of view of people who have been here a while and we don't know what it's like for a real newbie in present day Lusternia.
is there an honours line for the counter quest btw? I haven't seen it yet.
is there an honours line for the counter quest btw? I haven't seen it yet.
Sarrasri2008-08-01 19:22:29
You don't get an honours line for doing the counter quest, just some karma from when the antennas are dismantled.
Aison2008-08-01 19:23:05
There isn't.
Kaalak2008-08-01 19:23:48
QUOTE(Aison @ Aug 1 2008, 12:08 PM) 539522
Marani Veloske thing
I'd like to see the Marani thing kept the way it is. I like a basin wide threat that pops up if you don't smack it down enough.
Now if you have a NEW idea along the same lines that would be interesting. Personally I always thought a lost Celest legion of paladins, now unaffiliated, being discovered that you could convince to unleash at a particular target (organization/village) would be interesting.
Kaalak2008-08-01 19:25:44
QUOTE(Sarrasri @ Aug 1 2008, 12:22 PM) 539534
You don't get an honours line for doing the counter quest, just some karma from when the antennas are dismantled.
At top speed how long does it take you to do the counter quest?
Can you do it yourself or do you need a group Sarrasri?
And exactly how arduous?
I'd base additional counterquest benefits off that.
Lendren2008-08-01 19:28:43
If anyone is trying to stop you, you can't do the counterquest. It literally takes one hit to a weak mob to stop it, and you can't prevent it in any way, even if you are willing to end up on the wrong side of Avechna.
If no one is trying to stop you, it's about an hour, and takes at least three or four people. If it fails in any way, you can't do it again for another hour or two. (In the past, that second try after a failure was doomed too, but that bug might have been fixed by now.)
If no one is trying to stop you, it's about an hour, and takes at least three or four people. If it fails in any way, you can't do it again for another hour or two. (In the past, that second try after a failure was doomed too, but that bug might have been fixed by now.)
