let us fix that

The divine of your org say you can not do the quest, encouraging members of the org to threaten to kick you out if you do it again and putting it on the banned quest list. So admin guided RP FTW

disclaimer: I have no ill feelings towards the divine in question, nor do I think what they did was wrong.

I feel like I'm arguing with a brick wall. You said it wasn't viable. I merely proved you wrong. Perhaps you need to look up the definition of viable.

I'm just baffled that you can not get past that your and my personal RP should have no influence of how the Broadcasting center works, because they are personal choices the player makes. If Seren chooses to not take advantage of a game mechanic, that's fine. There's nothing wrong with wanting to RP against the Center, but trying to OOCLY change the Broadcasting Center based on an IC decision that could have just as easily gone the other way is ridiculous.

Whatever, I'm going to bed. Seren made a choice, so obviously the Tainted Broadcasting Center should be changed to suit them.

Either it's personal or it isn't. You keep changing your mind to suit your current point. MAYBE personal RP shouldn't count. Org and Divine-encouraged RP can and should. It's consistent with Serenwilde's role as people who think they're not mind-dominating monsters and who won't back up the Tainted without a really good reason. All you keep saying is "you could do it differently."

lol

I miss when Seren didn't mind much fighting with Mag.

If a Seren does it and they can sweet-talk their way, they can do it. If a Celestian does it and they can sweet-talk their way, the can do it.

It's as easy as saying "I'm just releasing a problem into our enemies."

Don't confuse "It's bending my org's RP" with "It's bending MY RP." There's many people who can do questionable things and they have lived through it.


"I'm not stealing fae. I'm just saving them from Glomdoring because Fae don't know better. I do."

haha, I find this amazing because this is how people probably feel about talking to you.


Now you go on to spout notes about how the quest has been done and is allegedly viable.

Unfortunately you aren't considering the various variables that actually make something viable in lusternia.

For example I think magnagorans should start killing demon lords and start delivering them to celest.
This is something you could do, as an organisational based quest it is rightfully something you shouldn't want to do. Applying what variables you seem to be considering this is a viable quest for magnagorans.
In a game like that, magnagora could easily forge a love and peace pact with celest

To be fair, that analogy isn't a lot of good because that would be counterproductive to the org.

The other analogies look like they're failing because there seem to be a bunch of players in Magnagora that think Magnagora doesn't give a about anything and just wants rewards for itself, though, rather than because the analogies are bad. Of course, said Magnagorans then try to project this same attitude on everyone else, which is also poor, or blur "helping taint" into some undefined mess rather than allowing qualifiers as they should.

Yes... unfortunately it was the only thing I could think of that a magnagoran honestly wouldn't do.

They quite possibly would kill the elemental lords if they didn't have dream sands

Yeah, exactly. And since they have that attitude, it's very easy for them to say everyone else should have it too.

1 to 55 by pilgrims, and pilgrims alone.

Stopping the counterquest is too easy
If only one change can be made, address how trivially the counterquest is stopped with a single action that is nigh-unpreventable. To wit: there's a long period while you're standing there waiting for gravedigger scouts to protect the boy while he dismantles. Anyone can bring that to a complete stop, no matter how far along the counterquest you are, by simply walking in and kicking the boy. If they manage to kill the boy too (which is trivially easy), the quest is ground to a halt for several hours. And there's essentially nothing you can do to prevent it. Perhaps a coordinated team with someone using Great Pentagram could prevent it, though there are ways around Great Pentagram too. But ultimately the problem is the boy is fragile, easily distracted, and since he's a denizen, impossible to ward with 99% of our skills. Even Avenger sides with the attacker since you can't defend him and he's not in anyone's enemy territory, not that that would matter really.

A quick fix that isn't really very satisfactory would be to make it so while he's dismantling, he doesn't run immediately when struck. Also, give him a lot more health, then boost how much the gravediggers hurt him in proportion, so he's just as vulnerable to them as before, but a lot less vulnerable to random passersby.

A better fix: while he's dismantling the antenna, he's up on the antenna and thus out of reach to anyone but the gravediggers (who can also climb up there after him). Thus, he can't be attacked during the dismantling, so you're only defending him against the gravediggers, as originally intended. Of course, does it make sense that with all of us flying acrobatic people with ranged attacks, no one can attack him? Maybe a better excuseexplanation is that while he's up there, the antenna protects him somehow, he hides inside it or it projects a shield or it controls your mind to stop you attacking him?

The ideal fix: Change how the dismantling is done so it isn't dependent on a fragile, distracted child in the first place. Or provide a second means. Or provide a means (as in my relay station proposal) to not dismantle it but take it over and use it to send out your own signal instead (which would also make the whole quest a lot more dynamic and interesting, plus address another concern, see below).

Once a minute isn't spam?
I suppose the definition of spam is subjective. But it's not once a minute anyway, because after a while, he's doing two, even three, consecutive spurts of noise once a minute, creating a block of irritation as long as one of Aesyra's attacks. In any case, whether you call it spam or not, I call it ridiculously annoying. Cut it to once every ten minutes. Better yet, also provide a means (like the one I suggested in my 'relay station' proposal) to turn it off for your nexus.

This quest is biased in favor of the Straw-Man Fallacy Brigade
I'm so sick of people dwelling on the "this unfairly favors Organization X" straw-man red-herring. I mean, this is the forum, you're entitled to miss points and drone on and on about irrelevancies all day long, but it's drowning out the actual issue, every single time this comes up. Can we make one thread for people to whine about how biased it is, and a separate one to whine about how poorly designed it is, so the latter won't get swallowed up by the former?

Better yet, use something like the idea I posed earlier in the thread to allow people who aren't tainted to do the quest without sacrificing their roleplay. (I.e., a third party, like the engineers in the relay station, who are untainted and not affiliated with anyone, and who can jam and override the TBC's signal and replace it with your own message.) Then once everyone can do this, we can talk about what it takes to make it fair and reasonable and not frustrating and not punishing the wrong people, without getting lost in this morass of distraction.

Stop punishing the young
The fact that you can get by without a particular quest that favors the young is besides the point. You can get by without Newton (I did), or without the collegia, or without undersecretaries, or without any of the many other things that Lusternia has put into place to help make the game more attractive and enticing to the newcomers. Remember the whole thing we do every few months about how we have to focus on attracting and retaining newcomers, so the game will grow and your guild won't be empty and you can have the city you have been waiting for and all that? The wanderer part of the quest is, to the lowbies, a lot more than just "oops, you have to do something else for a while". It's the fact that they can't do wanderers, plus the fact that they can't do a damned thing to prevent the situation, plus the fact that they can't even help in the slightest with fixing it, and that gives them precisely the wrong feeling about making them feel welcome and involved and interested. And while we have a few other lowbie things they can do, I think it's widely agreed we don't have enough; lots of people complain about that middling-levels time when it's harder to find appropriate hunting opportunities, for instance. The last thing Lusternia should be doing is taking away options from the people who have the fewest to begin with.

My "relay station" idea provides a simple fix. There's a denizen somewhere in the relay station that even a lowbie can influence with begging to get a "jammer" that they can carry around. It lasts a couple of days (until its crystal battery runs out, i.e., until it resets) and jams the mind control signal within the room, so those who carry it can still get wanderers to follow them. There are a few dozen of them available.

Turn problems into opportunities
A few quick band-aids will mend the worst of the problems quickly, but it will still leave this a badly-designed quest that adds problems and little else, and is merely less totally awful. But this problem can be the proverbial lemon from which lemonade is made. My relay station idea is just an example of how fixing these problems and redesigning the quest can be inspiration for a new area, a new event, some new quests, and a way to preserve the investment in this original area while making it even more interesting and more dynamic, all while fixing the problems. That is truly an everyone-wins scenario. What we have gets made from bad to good, and we also get some more new stuff.

Akuifavor Lendren

I like everything about that post. I feel like some people forget how important wanderers are to newer players, and how (relative to how much they can bring in) gold intensive a new player's life tends to be. There's a whole set of vials and potions and herbs to aquire for guild tests, and even robes can be a big investment for them.

I also like the relay station idea. Say what you want about favortism, the moral choice here should be "are you OK with mind controlling propaganda" (a choice that doesn't link itself RP wise to any organization). If a city/commune is not ok with mind controlling propaganda, well, that's an RP choice that is made by the players. Not one that's almost hard-written into the story line along the lines of taint/not-taint. We should be encouraging RP, not saying "LOL CHANGE UR RP 4 MECHANICAL ADVANTAGE", unless we want to devolve into a chatroom of idiots where we kill text monsters. There's enough of those around.

Do magnagorans kill the stone lords if they don't have sand? Their being alive has no benefit if they aren't holding a sand, killing them doesn't hurt the org or the individual (other then a meaningless enemying I think), and each one is worth over 1k gold and some xp.

So, Celina, kill your stone lords and post logs. Whatever it takes to get ahead, right?

IC, if Magnagora started killing the Earth lords, they would get upset and refuse to help Magnagora any more. Even though we know that such will not happen mechanically, we don't do it because it should happen RP wise. We aren't powergamers, Magnagora's RP encourages members to get more power at any price. Upsetting the Earth Lords but getting 4000 gold is a net loss for Magnagora.

It's similar to how I advocate reanimating the dead half of Illith siting out in the blasted lands and making it attack Celest. I know OOC that the admins would not allow that to happen, as it would be unfair to Celest, but it makes perfect sense to do IC, so I go ahead anyways.

IC, if Celest started helping Globglob, their patrons would get upset and refuse help Celest any more, and it would likely upset the Supernals as well. And we know the patrons wouldn't like it, who knows about the Supernals, but we don't do it because it shouldn't happen RP wise. We aren't powergamers, Celest's RP is that taint is bad. Upsetting our patrons and Supernals but getting 1 power (or is it 2?) per pilgrim etc is a net loss for Celest.

So? Ask your patrons if there is a way to remove the taint from the place and find a non-crazy and anti-taint replacement for Globglob to run the equipment for you.

Then again, individuals like old Shamarah and Kalodan exist across the entire game. Even if they aren't tainted, stealing Fae was frowned upon by Raziela and Maeve respectively and people like them did it. People have done things even "against the city RP" and they have endured. People had the proverbial nuts to do outrageous things and some people still defended them, even if some of the leadership did not wanted to do it.

It's not up to the supernals or the patrons. It's up to the players who run the game. It can be done and players have the possibility to get away with it. It just requires some intellect, some persuasion and a lot of imagination.

And it's not "breaking your RP." The RP should not confine your character. You should in the end do what you want with your RP if you can think of a clever way to do it.



Oh, and I know some players who have been willing to do the tainted Fae quest to empower Gorgulu up to the point he eats every Demon Lord and dominates Nil.

You know, if you could still have pacts and deep pacts with the essence of the demon lords still inside of Gorgulu and if more Gorgulu cultist held power, I think it could be viable

Although that means Seren and Glom would be on Mag's ass, but it would be freaking radical.

I'd be stealing fae if they hadn't changed it where you needed to use influencing to seduce them.

Monotheistic Nihilism would be awesome.

I'm Magnagoran. I essentially never do the bard/scholar/pilgrim quests, I don't hang around other orgs nexi, and I'm not generally online when Magnagorans get all gung-ho about raiding. Hence, I have very little to do with inter-org conflict, and this quest in particular. Having said all that, I think that the Celestians/non-Magnagorans in this thread are obviously right, and the Magnagorans are obviously wrong.

The quest seems both badly designed and unfairly RP-inaccessible to one side of the game, without a corresponding quest on the other side. A midbie quest that reduces play options for newbies is just a bad idea all round. There's a big difference between personal RP and org RP: if someone set themselves up as anti-Maeve and then complained they couldn't do the Sceptre Quest, that would be stupid; that's very different to Celestians refusing to do a quest which is obviously pro-Taint.

So, fellow Magnagorans, we got given a quest which really helps us but is, unfortunately, pretty fundamentally flawed. That's very sad. Can we harden up and fix the game now?

Except it wasn't Dranor who did this. It was Avasyu and -he- was a good Administrator. Dranor has done nothing save taking a year to run through class leads, one rather buggy five year celebration, and play xbox live. Which is why I am happily here.