When has my position changed? If your org has a choice, and Seren did, then the game mechanics should not change because you made a choice. The game shouldn't bend to your will. It's only unfair because you don't want to exploit the benefits. You'd rather hammer on this "Seren is against mind controlling" instead of taking another perspective. "We're saving them from the Taint and Glomdoring." Neither is wrong or right, as I've said repeatedly, but it is your personal choice. Seren has worked with Mag. They have bunked with the Taint and they didn't care much at the time, but suddenly it's totally against Seren RP to work with the taint in this instance (or, if you would like another perspective...working against the Taint, using the taint against the taint in a way).
Your personal RP choices should not influence the mechanics of quests.

In other words, you could do it differently.



First, enough with the "No u" posts.

Do you know the definition of viable? A synonym for viable is "possible."

Now, if you want to get into a debate about Lisaera not allowing it or it being against the very foundations of Serens RP, that's another story. You might have a point with Lisaera(though the Admin are there to Guide RP, not dictate it. If you made a real, believable case for doing the Quest, your Admin would listen I bet), but other than that, you have nothing. This quest is not biased against Seren. The reasoning just isn't as straightforward for a Seren as it is for a Mag, but it's not biased against Seren.

Your comparison makes no sense. That's not even remotely realistic.



Though your comparison doesn't really make sense in this argument, you do make a point with getting ahead. It is certainly a stance Orgs can take. Does Celest hate the Taint enough to deny the Megalith power and save bards and scholars from the horrors of Magnagora (keep in mind Celest was totally fine with stealing fae until an event made it otherwise)? How far will they go to accomplish destroying the Taint? Using it against itself?

It's simply a matter of perspective.

edit: If the quest itself is broken mechanically, then fixes are fine. If Globglob is too hard to kill or it requires some obscure, hard to find item (I dunno, I can walk you through the quest...but I don't know the counter quest) then fixing those is fine. If it's simply a "it's biased" thing...I'm not buying it.

As for the newbies....in Achaea, newbies are subject to being randomly killed by roaming super mobs that travel frequented roads. No, this is not Achaea, but denying newbies of one out of a dozen possibillities on the off occasion that the quest has been completed and not undone is not a valid argument. It could be way worse, and the newbies aren't suffering.

I believe the arguements for newbies is there are other ways to get the intended effect without denying them the ability to earn gold/exp from the scholars and bards.

I don't get you, you keep attacking anyone who proposes ideas about this, but don't seem to have knowledge of the quest enough to make a good suggestion about it. I just don't get it.

You insult other peoples intelligence (often a tactic of those who fear they are lacking in this quality), I am fully aware of what viable means. perhaps you need to be hit over the head with a dictionary to learn what variable means.

Variables existing in this situation:
Quest coding - Is it litterally possible, along the lines of is it litterally possible to kill the Earth lords
Quest positioning - Small factor, but location matters simply for ease of completion
Quest requirements - what it actually entails
Organisational Roleplay - Ultimately up to the players, but really if you are doing it wrong the admin step in.
Personal Roleplay - Up to the player, if you go outside organisational based rp you will be punished if caught.
Order Roleplay - Is your divine going to lay the smack down on you for doing it?

No it's not really. Especially with the Hartstone with all the nice events and history about the bloodthirsty spirits of the druids who thought it was a good idea to dabble with the taint. I believe you were a black talon once, you should know about this.


uuh as people have risen the divine take their stances, surprisingly based off their RP. And you also obviously weren't around for Glomdoring. If the admin really aren't happy with the direction you take things, stuff changes.

Seriously I wish there was a situation where you'd have to do the things you're asking other people to do. Like... tell fain he should start dating Terentia or something.

But again, certain magnagoran "rp" makes things easy I guess.


I think the snugglebunny Celegora pact is completely realistic, infact Celina it is now your lifes goal to see such put into action.

Though in reality, you do need to consider how far a "good" org will let themselves slide into the "evil" stereotype. Unfortunately they have to actually deal with the issue of reinstating rules once things start sliding.

I guess my main point Celina is why do you even care?

IDEA: Allow people to lead bards/scholars to the world stage/world library even if the quest is up and still get the same xp and gold as they would otherwise. Doing this would have no effect on anyone's culture rating.

Does this please the people that are sad that the newbies are missing out?

The main issue for me isn't even the newbies missing out. That's a part of it, but only very small in comparison. My issue is that people like Celina are suggesting that we should all play moral-less characters just to get our way. No, if the organisation(s) as a whole has decided not to help Taint/mind-controlling mugwump in doing a quest, they should not be disadvantaged because of it.

Still applies.

Still applies.

Also, from what I have seen, the Divine generally don't change quests just because their followers asked them to.

I think we could get over one of those factors if it wasn't -all- obviously aligned the specific way it is.

The tainted fae event happened as a result of players asking their patrons if something is possible, as did Magnagora's catherdral, Celest's hotel, and a number of other events. Why not a new quest to de-taint the TBC for a while and get your city cryer to talk over it?

Some people seem to say that the RP means nothing, while others say it's the biggest issue. There's a split in where people find the biggest issue it seems.

So what's the problem with the RP? Obviously Magnagora and Glomdoring have no problems being able to do it. Serenwilde isn't necessarily peaceful. The histories say the communes "together ruled the Basin of Life with a harsh compassion, borne from the struggle to survive, and bent the races to the worship of nature.." They let many innocent people die in Old Celest, in fact, the High Priestess wanted them to die. Now, I'm not saying Serenwilde needs to go worship the Demon Lords, but is the mind control really against Serenwilde's RP as an organization?

It is obviously harder for Celest to justify doing this quest. However, Celest has gotten its hands dirty in the past. Celest can be violent.

So, my question is: Is the fact the area has the word tainted in it the reason these two orgs are having trouble doing it? Is it really the mind control? Perhaps the reward is just not enough to justify what you are doing. If the reward was greater for helping Globglob.. say you could get him to shout what you want somehow... would that change things?

I'd like to hear ideas about this from those that think RP bias is a problem!


As for the effects of the quest...

Globglob shouts once every 10 minutes. Not once every minute as someone mentioned earlier. Is that really too often?

If you take into account the amount of time the broadcast is ever active, is the effect on newbies and/or culture still too damaging?

It seems like people can usually get the little boy to two antennas, and if he does die, it's usually at the third. Is having to make two trips too much? The counter-quest is actually very simple when compared to the time it takes to do the quest, I think. Do most of you disagree? (Those that actually have walked through the quest). Do you think a larger, maybe honours, counter-quest that would take Globglob down for longer would be better?

If you feel that the mechanics of the quest are the problem, I'm interested in how you think it can be fixed up.

Please calm it down as far as the insults go. It would be a shame to have to close it. If you don't like a person's ideas you can explain so without insulting them!

Taint == No go for Seren and Celest, that's pretty much what they're bound to, if it didn't have the word taint in it, then I doubt anyone would have a problem doing it.

For the first part, that's a valid point. Serenwilde could use mind control if they wanted. ICly, it's up the RP of each character whether or not mind control goes against their ethics. For Ali, mind control would be a-okay IF it didn't effect people that didn't belong to Glomdoring or Magnagora. It also depends on how bad the mind control is, and what they're being forced to do. I would even say hurting Celest is fine too, as long as the harm against Glomdoring and Magnagora is significant enough. Even though the BC is tainted by nature, that taint is easily controlled and manipulated without embracing it as a Magnagoran would.

I should also mention that my 'let's not try and get Celest angry' isn't from OMG YAY CELENWILDE <3333 as every Magnadoran thinks, it's more of a 'Let's not disturb this rather nice diplomatic relationship we've got going on right now' thing.

For the second one, I'm not sure how long it takes to get a new Stryker kid from Ildil after the first dies. It feels like it's too long, but I never actually timed it, nor has anyone killed Ildil near the end of the timer to interrupt us. It might just be one big placebo, or the fact that the options for delay are open, that makes people wig out.

It's rarely active because some of us, knowing how ridiculous it will be if it is, go to great lengths and expense to ensure it never gets active in the first place. In other words, we replace one huge intermittent (but in the past, frequent) frustration with a smaller, but constant, one. The fact that it's so awful that we're willing to endure this effort to prevent it is not proof that "it's not that bad". Quite the opposite, in fact.

Not true, at least on Serenwilde's end. They've already demonstrated a willingness to work with the Taint if it serves a goal, so... Of course, it's not stopping them from complaining about it now when it's a mechanical thing, but they've still got a history of ignoring that word when it suits them.

I can't remember, tainted druids event(which is incidentally related to early attempts by druids to remove the taint or something, two years is a long time to remember stuff... someone go make history wiki for us)... before or after Celenwilde war?

Either way, It seems more realistic that Serenwilde would not accept the taint lightly. In all honestly Seren should only work with mag when they have no other choice and the forest would suffer if we didn't, just like when Maeve shines the bat signal in the skies to make Glomdoring and Serenwilde work together.

Nobody kids themselves into believing that serenwilde and glomdoring will work together beyond necessity, so why should the city that spawned the taint and has sought to harm the fae be any different? (Celest is responsible for the taint too, but they don't revel in it so they are slightly better)



Oooh if you've seen hell girl, it's kinda like Serenwilde is "Magnagoran Hell Girl"s client. Normally you wouldn't even consider damning your soul to hell but when backed into a corner with no apparent options you just might do it

During the Seren/Celest war and the couple of RL months following it, Serenwilde was closer to Magnagora than Celest (up until Thoros and a few others began raiding Seren for fun, as I remember it).

And a Shiri-quote on the subject!



http://forums.lusternia.com/index.php?s=&a...st&p=371482

As he said, it's not that they liked the Taint, but it was the best option at the time to go with. Either way, it is "using the taint" to Serenwilde's benefit (though I suppose the argument could be made that it was more of a necessity in that case, it's really not that huge a leap from "Using the taint" for one goal to "using the taint" for another goal). I think if the message could be changed slightly by the organization that raises Globglob, Seren on the whole would probably be much more willing to explore the quest. That, and if it had less of an effect on the ability of novices to earn some gold and experience. I like the idea of "allowing anyone to gather them, but only the org that raised Globglob gets culture from them. I think that, plus some (admin-approved customized messages that keep some of the theme of the place, while also supporting the org that raised it) would go a long way towards opening the quest up.

Of course, that doesn't mean that certain individuals would-- nor should it. Individuals already do some quests, don't do others, etc. based on their own personal roleplay. These sort of quests should, indeed, have some kind of a roleplay effect, a "Would my character actually do this?" hanging over it. For example, I don't see Xen helping Globglob, just like I don't see him doing the Moon Dish thing. I also do not see Rika building Mother Night's Throne. I do not see an issue with that (especially since those last two also are, to some extent, "prohibited by organizational roleplay". Not that I know of any laws about it, but I think a Seren found building the Night Altar would be in hot water).

less organisational based examples would possibly be Hifarae and Verasavir (I think)

Would the tainted/wyrd help the centaur rather than Gromagh?
Or assist the ghost wolves over the necromantic hunters? though Glomdoring just might in that case


Neither quest is really linked to a particular organisation or side, though there are reasons why sides would only do one of the quests, in these areas there is a quest for both sides of the coin.

Other areas have single quests but they tend to be more general in terms of alignment so they get away with it.

I figure that any quest in "neutral" territory is fair game for a comparison. Thus, the Raising Crow/Hart quests aren't really (though they're very extreme examples of quests that can only really be done by one organization unless they specifically want help for some reason or another), but raising Marilynth and Ladantine's ship are. And these are also quests that (used to) have a severe impact on one city or the other.

What about Gorgogs?

(And, in the case of the quests you mention: Xenthos did the entire Gromagh quest, then gave the last item to a Magnagoran to finish / unleash the beasts on Serenwilde. Though he only did it that once, since it seemed like it was more than a bit annoying on an OOC level to them. He also did help the poor wolves over the evil hunters, and the spirit cat over the other segment of those hunters. Again, choices based on what the player sees the character's role as.)

Serenwilde was buddy-buddy with Magnagora up until the Tainted Fae event.