I'm talking more recently than that. That event does serve as a defining "WE SHALL ALWAYS HATE THE TAINT" moment, since before that they still had the teachings of Auseklis ("love thy taint, it is still Nature," despite the fact that he disappeared early on). They have bent from that since, and I expect that they will again if necessary (I mean, they just worked with Glomdoring a few days ago to save the Tree of Trees). The only real question is where the threshold is for "necessary".

I'm going to disregard your posts until you can manage to stop being insulting. If you have an argument that doesn't invole "no u," "you're stupid" or "lol fail" I'm all ears. This isn't a hostile discussion, stop making it one.

If my "i feel like I'm arguing with a brick wall" comment was insulting to Rika, I do apologize. I meant it as "Why can't I get my point across."



Because I do. I don't like senseless changes to benefit an org simply because they said so.



You should read more carefully. I have stated, a couple of times, that there are alternatives to your RP choices and that your choice is not wrong or right. It's simply a choice. You are basically saying you want to be able to choose whatever RP you want, and suffer no consequences. You, which is made very clear in this post, want to be privy to everything no matter what you RP, and this is fundamentally a bad idea. If all orgs, regardless of RP, could do the exact same things the exact same way...the only difference between the Orgs would be Seren using the hug emote and Mag using the cackle emote. There are quests that, should you choose the moral high ground, are not going to be able to participate in. It doesn't make them unfairly biased. Especially when the quest is a minor one with a very small reward.

Choices have consequences. The Broadcasting Center is not biased against the foundations of Seren RP. You are making a choice not to participate in this quest. Should the mage archetype be changed because I choose to RP as an Igasho? (not a perfect example, but you get the idea).

I think Nocht rather eloquently explained the point I have been trying to make.

I know what you are saying. I am disagreeing, in the same way as you are disagreeing with me.

Ok, the part you posted before the bold bit says that we should not expect things to change because we want to RP our way differently from Mag does. However, then you turn around in the bolded bit to say that there are quests which you will have to miss out on because you chose to RP differently. You acknowledge that people do need to RP differently, but you are also saying that if you do, you will be screwed for it. This DOES make it unfair.

Sure, if the quest were changed we might be willing to do it (or individuals might, it'd still be a point of contention.) But the thing you quoted demonstrates that we only team up with the Taint if we feel like we need to. Annoying people and having scholars is clearly a luxury. Getting pwnt by Celenglom and needing help to avoid being completely demoralised and losing all the moon avatars over and over, not so much.

You aren't "screwed." This quest isn't that big of a deal. It's not like your choice is forcing you out of something important or your Org is suffering in some way. It's not unfair for RP choices to exclude you from certain quests or events. Now, if this quest had effects like say...Domoths...then yes, that'd be unfair. This isn't unfair. It's a small quest.

I really don't see how you can you can claim the TBC "screws" over Seren. Seren has been doing quite well with Bards and Scholars for a while now. I think you are making a mountain out of a mole hill.

Alright, since you believe whether the size and effect of the quest matters. Soulforge. Explain the fairness of that one?

What does the soulforge have to do with the TBC? I know I compared the two earlier, but it was a situational comparison. The two aren't really related beyond being quests (as far as I know).

That being said, I don't know much about the soulforge quest beyond it draining power from one nexus to another, being very long and tedious to complete, and the counterquest being much easier. I've never bothered to read up on the history and how the forge actually functions, so I can't comment on how biased it is or isn't. I can say that's it's only been raised what...2 or 3 times?

If you want the Soulforge revamped, this is probably the wrong thread.

Maybe you think I'm forum RPing or something, but I fully support fixing imbalances. I just don't believe the TBC is biased against any orgs (other than maybe Celest, but they can still fudge it).

The Soulforge is totally relevant, because you are saying that small quests shouldn't be changed just to suit one group of people. Since you find the TBC to be 'small', I want to know what you think about the Soulforge, one of the biggest quests in Lusty, completely favouring one organisation. Will you defend it as well saying that we should expect to lose out if we play morally good characters?

I believe lendren posted saying there were people who were actively trying to prevent the completion of this quest which is possibly why Serenwilde still has the ability to collect bards and the like.

There is the negative feedback issue where, if someone else does this quest you don't simply see a single continent-wide emote, you get consistent reminders until you do the counter. While said ing only occurs in sigular locations for each org, these locations are possibly the most common locations in game.

EDIT: I can appreciate the messages as being humerous, but really who expects anything to be funny after the thousandth time. (exceptions occur, this is not one of them)

I had originally not intended to write to this thread. It is filled with too much negative emotions, and I have enough of those of my own. However, I am beginning to feel sorry for whoever the builder of this very interesting area is, and just how much thought went into making this area to have it reasonably playable by all. However, whoever it was, did not take into account the level of narrow mindedness of most of the characters in Lusternia. Most personalities of characters in Lusternia are based off a high level of bigotry and righteousness. So, here I finally write, not in support of the purpose of this thread, or even in opposition of this thread, but more to give the viewpoint of someone who has been on both ends of this area.

I have completed this quest a lot of times. It generally took my level 80ish character to complete the whole quest from start to finish in about one and a half hours (in theory this can be done a bit faster, but will still take an hour). Most of the time, it takes Serenwilde less than half an hour to destroy antaennes and kill GlobGlob. Twice even, and with plenty of gloating from a certain Serenwilder, I noted that the effects of the quest was removed within 10 minutes of me completing the quest. Of course, in addition to all this, a lot of parts about the quest can be killed off to easily prevent completion, as has been shown ever since all the loud complaints started, with the someones killing the main quest person over and over again. Not that I mind, not at all, that is part of the challenge of doing a quest, specially one as everyone likes to say is so beneficial. As such, all in all, the quest balances out in terms of difficulty of completion, and the ease of prevention and even removal.

From the roleplay side, it is completely up to the organisations on how they wish to approach this area, which may be tainted in its lands, and its big boss who is an ego hunting hound. There is nothing in the area itself, short of lying within the Blasted Lands that taint was involved in any part of completing the device. If I had to, I could reasons on why a certain someone would want to complete the device. At the same time, one must also remember it is one of the rare few prime areas where a high leveled person could bash in peace. Well, until yesterday anyways.

I know in the end, it is likely that this quest will be changed, since IRE and Lusternia do operate under the concept of 'what customers want, customers get'. Until then though, I think we should all take a step back. How many of you here have truely gone into the centre and explored it completely. Not many that I have seen even visit the Centre.

You should probably try it, so you can be less inaccurate and less flat-out wrong.


It's not "easy" by any means. First, just getting there involves killing a queen gravedigger, then getting past aggro gravediggers that sometimes form groups of six or more. Once you've gotten there you can use your usual spores/demesne/etc. tricks to get back, but not milestones, since where she is is indoors (I actually bought a pyramid puzzle just to be able to get there). Then the mob you have to kill is quite powerful (somewhere between a cave-fisher and a kraken).

The counterquest can be stopped in two ways, one of which involves killing a mob who is nowhere near as powerful as Norchatine, and the other requires merely walking a few rooms down the highway, then delivering a single kick to a weak mob who won't fight back and who a lowbie could kill handily.

Anyway, if you really want to convince anyone, try addressing the actual objections. Several of us have made suggestions that would fix things without eliminating any the effort put in by the original builders, in fact, expanding upon it and building on it; we're not insensitive to the work that the volunteers do for us, but that doesn't mean that something that needs fixing should not be called.

(Meanwhile, I'm beating myself up here... I set my pyramid and didn't kill Norchatine the first time, just because it's my routine; and as a result, Serenwilde had to waste almost two hours and suffer a couple of deaths I could have prevented with a single attack, if I had paused to think.)

A small correction: Killing a queen gravedigger is not hard. It can be done pretty easily by a large number of players solo, or an even larger number of players in a two-person group.

And I see milestones on the outer edge all the time-- why couldn't you leave yours there and just walk to her? As a Demi, you should have no real problems with the fisher-things even if they are clumped.

The point is the comparison between:

• Once an hour, all day long, every day, kill a queen gravedigger and the three gravediggers you have to kill to get to her, wend your way past a dozen gravedigger scouts, and then kill one very large mob, versus:
• Walk three rooms up the highway and 'kick boy', once every three hours or so.

The same comparison applies to the alternative solutions; in each case, one is a hundred times easier than the other.

Sure, we can recalibrate our words around fully artied demigods with an infinite supply of free time, but if the first one is called "easy" then I suppose we'd have to go Orwellian and talk about octupleplusunhard for the second one? The point remains, they're not at all comparable. Mentioning that an artied demigod with nothing else to do can do something is not the same as saying it's trivial, as Neuf wants to suggest.

Magnagorians realizing what's going on and catching up while you walk. Thus Prime combat ensues.

1. The general argument against changing the Centre seems to be "It's your own choice, and there are going to be consequences for your RP choices." That's a fine argument. So, why not suggest ideas for a -new- quest that favours anti-Taint organizations? Such a mirror (in concept, implementing a Light Broadcasting Centre would be stupid and uninteresting) would allow those with different RP choices than Magnagoran players to also participate in another aspect of the game, while, at the same time, allowing Magnagoran characters the fun of making difficult RP decisions.

2. Soulforge is not comparable. It's hardly favourable to Magnagora now, since becoming Undead isn't as easy as 'touch crypt.' Releasing the powers of a crazy Soulless = not related to Magnagoran Taint. They have made the decision to allow it because they believe it to be another situation where the benefits outweigh the risks, but that's actually a choice made on their behalf. Not to say it isn't a stupid quest, mind; general quests really should be made so both sides are equally difficult.

... I set my pyramid spot to the outer rim (near all the little stones Bards leave, often near Lendren's stone when he had it there) for easy access. Unless they're already there waiting (in which case, they'd probably be standing at Norchatine to stop you anyways), it's a pretty quick run into her room.

The issue does seem to be the "getting in" bit, but all Bards do have stones (which means a once-a-month entrance), and spores can be created as well (to allow the easy creation of a new stone later).

Last I knew the soulforge wasn't "tainted" so I don't see how it can really favor one org over another. It might appeal to Mag's more because a common Mag mindset is "do what needs to be done to get ahead" (very Fain-ish). That being said, even if it does favor one org over another, the soulforge requires large amounts of time off plane (avenger free), and directly syphons power from one nexus to another. So no...it's not comparable. IF the soulforge is biased, it should be changed. It's a significant power drain, as opposed to the TBC which is not a significant power drain. Actually, it doesn't drain power at all.

Doesn't the Soulforge require the killing of mob that is tougher than supernals/DLs? I remember dying to some giant bug that one shotted half of Mag when it died.



Erm...you can take out Queens at the bottom of pits at 70 without any real trouble. If you have the aggro gravediggers triggered correctly, you can run past them. You can actually circumvent them almost entirely by taking the left path to Norchatine. It is almost always empty, and if not empty it has maybe one or 2 diggers (heck, as an 88 nihilist, I can tank 3 diggers, how are you having trouble?). Norchatine isn't difficult. You can kill her at 80 easy.

And what Xenthos said, milestone on the platform. Estwald had a milestone there. It might take 4 minutes to get to Norchatine and kill her. Maybe 2 for a demi bard. Honestly, if Seren/Celest doesn't want the TBC to be in operation, it would be very easy for them to prevent it 99.9% of the time.

I know because I've killed Norchatine dozens of times from 70-now.


Take a suggestion from earlier in this thread and add some sort of giant lighthouse that draws bards/scholars to Orgs as well as keeping the TBC as is. Make it full of sunshines and hugs, slap a supernal or a moon avatar name on it so Seren and Celest won't feel bad, and there you go.

In all seriousness, some kind of giant lighthouse that is geared more towards Celenwilde would be fine. Mag would probably still do it, but at least Celenwilde would (hopefully) stop complaining. I'd hate to see the Admin suffer through uneccesary coding, but whatever.

If the bolded part is true than you are doing it wrong. It should be easily bodged for at least 1 hour.

Also either I do the quest really fast, or you are doing it really slow.

Most places are mainly against using soulless stuff, especially Serenwilde and Celest. And it is not likely to be done again soon because in the end Magnagora will end up losing more than they gain (3 orgs teaming up against you and all that)

The mob is not tougher than the supernals or DLs, it is pretty much like Globglob, if you have enough people it is easy, yes the last blast can kill you but it only kills you after destroying it.


Did you know most of us can not spend 24/7 in lusternia, real life responsibilities are a bitch. And oddly enough the centre gets activated in off hours more than during peak hours even though appereantly mag has no people in off hours

Neither Celest nor Serenwilde are huggy, we demand the killing of taintlings to be included in the quest


Or they could you know, create a decent rewards for the counterquest and make a quest to -prevent- it from being activated for x time

Honestly? The RP behind Celest is not that hard to follow, it is a perfectly logical progression in fact.

1. Soulless is bad m'kay
2. Taint is soulless m'kay
3. Don't do Taint m'kay

The soulforge is strictly worse than the TBC in every respect as far as Celest RP is concerned. In fact the existence of that quest followed by the TBC is one of the reasons Celest players are annoyed with the state of recent "world quests".