Unknown2008-09-03 04:01:00
It was more the speed at which your vote changed, Shiri. (Speed measured in posts rather than time.)
And of course my scum-dar's terrible. My radar's better tuned to power roles.
And of course my scum-dar's terrible. My radar's better tuned to power roles.
Shiri2008-09-03 04:02:53
The speed doesn't seem higher than normal either. I changed votes like 3 times in the first two pages of the game where I was a roleblocker. It's quite normal for me to update my assessment of the situation as new information and posts come in, especially when my first vote is usually random.
Daganev2008-09-03 04:08:43
QUOTE(Xavius @ Sep 2 2008, 08:42 PM) 553232
I think the assumption that there is a serial killer, as opposed to a vigilante, is solid. Two kills on the first night isn't smart vig play. So, it got me to thinking, what would an SK aim for? I've never played one. I'm thinking that a smart SK's first goal would be to survive, and the second goal would be to knock off all power roles, be they scum or town. Shiri's doing a pretty poor job of goal number one--no way he'd stick his neck out to save someone else as SK. I've never seen him behave so suspiciously in a game, though, and I can't shake the idea that something is wrong.
The other option would be two scum groups. I think the game is pretty small for that, but I suppose it's an option. We have a non-recruiting mason group of two. We could have two scum teams, both with two people, or one with two and one with three. Shaddus' role is a pretty high-powered scum role, and could be used to balance out having a small scum team. Shiri's behavior would be more consistent with being part of a competing scum group.
I dunno. I don't like either option, his alibi is pretty solid, but Shiri's scummy spasticness is going to keep my vote right where it is until something better comes along.
The other option would be two scum groups. I think the game is pretty small for that, but I suppose it's an option. We have a non-recruiting mason group of two. We could have two scum teams, both with two people, or one with two and one with three. Shaddus' role is a pretty high-powered scum role, and could be used to balance out having a small scum team. Shiri's behavior would be more consistent with being part of a competing scum group.
I dunno. I don't like either option, his alibi is pretty solid, but Shiri's scummy spasticness is going to keep my vote right where it is until something better comes along.
Well, you can see how I played the SK role in the Lusternian gods game. I stuck my neck out quite a bit early on to try to gain the town's trust, and worked to find the scum and powerroles. I thought I was going to die much earlier than I actualy did. still wondering if its even possible for a SK from the get go to win.
Shiri2008-09-03 04:11:54
QUOTE(daganev @ Sep 3 2008, 05:08 AM) 553247
Well, you can see how I played the SK role in the Lusternian gods game. I stuck my neck out quite a bit early on to try to gain the town's trust, and worked to find the scum and powerroles. I thought I was going to die much earlier than I actualy did. still wondering if its even possible for a SK from the get go to win.
I think it's phenomenally hard to win as a regular SK simply because so many things can go wrong for you. In that one envoy game where I died night 1 and you were an SK with illusions though, you definitely had a shot at winning that.
Normally SKs are a "for fun" role though.
Daganev2008-09-03 04:21:34
QUOTE(Shiri @ Sep 2 2008, 08:33 PM) 553228
What do you mean your german usage suspicion is correct? It was -in-correct. I explained this already. Did you read Shaddus' roleclaim? There's nothing about Germans in there. I just assumed it from the pictures and the image called to mind by my role (i.e WW2 era probably-British soldier with out-of-fashion name.)
And how would being an SK explain -any- of that?
And how would being an SK explain -any- of that?
well my theory is as this. (at this point in time)
The bad guys know they arn't specifically germans, so they can be honest about thier names. At the same time they can try to convince everyone else through subtle methods that the bad guys ARE germans. Thus having people wildly looking for germans.
Xavius and others have found your actions suspicious as well. Your actions can still be suspicions (becasue you are the SK) and you can still have helped killed off shaddus (because you arn't mafia)
Unknown2008-09-03 04:43:51
I find Shiri's behavior quite erratic as well, in that his posts encompass potential role-fishing for the investigator, aforementioned rapid vote switching, and being generally defensive - calling Xavius' scenario retarded, saying that he's a better player than this, and calling Xikue's scum radars terrible. While he does usually elaborate afterwards, the tone is striking me as rather odd, as if he's trying to steamroller the accusations. Each of those I mentioned can still be explained away if they were the sole characteristics of his posts, but the combination seems to be screaming scum to me, either a rival scum team opposite of Shaddus' (less likely) or an SK. The throwing off of people's perceptions of scum (i.e. German scum?) just cements the thing, since it would be effectively misleading to have town think that the scum are German when they're not (as evidenced by the modkilled Shaddus), implying inside information.
Vote: Shiri
Vote: Shiri
Unknown2008-09-03 04:44:46
Pardon me if I sound a little incoherent, I'm running late and have to get to class!
Silvanus2008-09-03 04:45:11
No one else vote on Shiri.
Rika2008-09-03 04:46:20
I'm not sure if I want to jump onto this Shiri bandwagon. It might just be the fact that he helped get Shaddus, but I don't really think he is scum or SK. Don't know who else to vote for, though.
Daganev2008-09-03 04:50:12
well don't vote for anyone untill he roleclaims.
Though someone else has got to be suspicious on some level, there are likely 3 mafia and a SK for 2 other people are suspects. (whomever they are)
Though someone else has got to be suspicious on some level, there are likely 3 mafia and a SK for 2 other people are suspects. (whomever they are)
Xavius2008-09-03 04:56:27
I'm going to be outright amazed if Shiri turns up SK. I think the game is too small for two scum groups. I wish there was something better to play with than Shiri's demeanor, but I don't think we're going to get it. I'm not even sure what Shiri could claim for me to be less suspicious of him, unless he had a role that could verify itself. By Java, someone do something fishy.
Shiri2008-09-03 04:58:33
I'm pilot Flash Cook, the pilot who was flying the plane at the time the engines cut out. Of course, now I don't have a plane, and some sod pinched my goggles and flying helmet, so I can't do anything.
If I'm lynched or otherwise slain, my recommendations are Xikue and Saran for hiding and not risking their necks by saying anything of any worth, and Xavius and Daganev of the ones bandwagoning me because their poor reasoning is either A) going to get more of the town killed, or
indicative of their being scum themselves. This SK scenario they keep pushing to dodge the fact that their original mafia scenario is retarded makes me think they want me out of the way for whatever reason and are constructing things to apply to me rather than deductively reasoning from what's happening. I don't get why Xavius would have helped lynch Shaddus if this is the case, but it's totally worth examining.
Nothing is unusual about my style.
Cop, if you find a scum, you need to tell everyone so they can get lynched, and then since you'll be proven you can get doctor protection. Until then stay hidden, of course.
If I'm lynched or otherwise slain, my recommendations are Xikue and Saran for hiding and not risking their necks by saying anything of any worth, and Xavius and Daganev of the ones bandwagoning me because their poor reasoning is either A) going to get more of the town killed, or
indicative of their being scum themselves. This SK scenario they keep pushing to dodge the fact that their original mafia scenario is retarded makes me think they want me out of the way for whatever reason and are constructing things to apply to me rather than deductively reasoning from what's happening. I don't get why Xavius would have helped lynch Shaddus if this is the case, but it's totally worth examining.Nothing is unusual about my style.
Cop, if you find a scum, you need to tell everyone so they can get lynched, and then since you'll be proven you can get doctor protection. Until then stay hidden, of course.
Xavius2008-09-03 05:05:27
There's nothing to deductively reason from, aside from what you're doing. I stand by lynching suspicious people before quiet people, and far more than Dag agrees with me on your activity (which is good, because if it was only Dag and me, I'd probably drop the vote).
That being said, let's get some other people talking about Shiri's claim before a lynch, eh? Anyone else have a pilot role? Anyone else think that the bit about goggles sounds contrived? Heck, anyone have the poor guy's goggles?
That being said, let's get some other people talking about Shiri's claim before a lynch, eh? Anyone else have a pilot role? Anyone else think that the bit about goggles sounds contrived? Heck, anyone have the poor guy's goggles?
Shiri2008-09-03 05:09:51
QUOTE(Xavius @ Sep 3 2008, 06:05 AM) 553266
There's nothing to deductively reason from, aside from what you're doing. I stand by lynching suspicious people before quiet people, and far more than Dag agrees with me on your activity (which is good, because if it was only Dag and me, I'd probably drop the vote).
That being said, let's get some other people talking about Shiri's claim before a lynch, eh? Anyone else have a pilot role? Anyone else think that the bit about goggles sounds contrived? Heck, anyone have the poor guy's goggles?
That being said, let's get some other people talking about Shiri's claim before a lynch, eh? Anyone else have a pilot role? Anyone else think that the bit about goggles sounds contrived? Heck, anyone have the poor guy's goggles?
I know there isn't anything to deductively reason from except what people are doing any the possible scenario, but you're not actually doing that. You seem to be coming from the perspective of wanting me to be a scum and , rather than seeing any actual scum tells (the purpoted ones you've pointed out having been justified and explained.)
If there's another pilot, and they speak up, naturally lynch them after finishing me off and proving me right since they'll be a liar. If no one speaks up, you can assume I am in fact the pilot, which doesn't do a lot of good since the scum don't seem to be keyed to any precise military role. With at least two vanillas in the game, and arbitrary-seeming scum, roleclaim flavour isn't going to help a lot here.
Obviously no one will claim to have the goggles since anyone nicking the goggles will be scum (and it probably isn't in their roleclaim anyway, the point is I'm vanilla.)
Shiri2008-09-03 05:12:04
The missing phrase after "and" in the first paragraph was going to be "constructing a scenario to fit that." I don't know if there's a technical term for that kind of tactic, but it's the same sort of thing as thinking up alien cloaking technology to explain how no one could have seen them the night before when they made all those crop circles.
Saran2008-09-03 05:17:04
I would actually be looking at Othero right now if not Shiri, just the whole bandwagoning on Shiri with Shaddus yesterday.
That's not to say I believe Shiri, I've seen him play before.
Also we were in a plane crash, could be fairly easy for the pilot to cause it
That's not to say I believe Shiri, I've seen him play before.
Also we were in a plane crash, could be fairly easy for the pilot to cause it
Xavius2008-09-03 05:19:56
Here's my opinion on your scumminess, nice and succinct:
1) You're being way weird. You railroaded a defense of Rika to spare her a roleclaim, then tried to extract a roleclaim of an investigator. That sort of inconsistency bothers me. Add to it the general defensiveness you've adopted, as opposed to trying to find new scum (lynching quiet people doesn't count), and it seems a natural conclusion that you have a self-serving role.
2) You being scum doesn't fit into any likely scenario. I've said it a few times now. If you're the SK, you're a really stupid SK, and that seems pretty unlikely. You could be part of a second scum team, but that means we're really densely populated with scum, and that seems pretty unlikely.
I don't like the contradiction. It's the sort of contradiction one would expect from Arix, not from you. Unfortunately, it's Mafia, and I can't pull an IC Xavius reaction and say do nothing until we get more information. Someone needs to get voted out, and sitting on our hands waiting for scum to volunteer their role isn't going to work.
1) You're being way weird. You railroaded a defense of Rika to spare her a roleclaim, then tried to extract a roleclaim of an investigator. That sort of inconsistency bothers me. Add to it the general defensiveness you've adopted, as opposed to trying to find new scum (lynching quiet people doesn't count), and it seems a natural conclusion that you have a self-serving role.
2) You being scum doesn't fit into any likely scenario. I've said it a few times now. If you're the SK, you're a really stupid SK, and that seems pretty unlikely. You could be part of a second scum team, but that means we're really densely populated with scum, and that seems pretty unlikely.
I don't like the contradiction. It's the sort of contradiction one would expect from Arix, not from you. Unfortunately, it's Mafia, and I can't pull an IC Xavius reaction and say do nothing until we get more information. Someone needs to get voted out, and sitting on our hands waiting for scum to volunteer their role isn't going to work.
Shiri2008-09-03 05:23:40
QUOTE(Saran @ Sep 3 2008, 06:17 AM) 553269
I would actually be looking at Othero right now if not Shiri, just the whole bandwagoning on Shiri with Shaddus yesterday.
I do not recommend Othero. He's not -confirmed- but the alternative scenario to him being a mason with Casilu is really weird: it involves Casilu commenting on how she's always paired with Othero, and him agreeing with it, you thinking they might be indicating they're a scum pair who just "said something they didn't mean to" or whatever, and then Casilu dies and actually is a mason, but with someone else.
In fact, Unvote: Xikue, Vote: Saran as you tried to pressure him before and if you've been reading the thread at all this should have occured to you.
QUOTE
That's not to say I believe Shiri, I've seen him play before.
Also we were in a plane crash, could be fairly easy for the pilot to cause it
Also we were in a plane crash, could be fairly easy for the pilot to cause it
Right. So far we lost an officer with a steely glare, whose role as officer has no real connection to being scum or ... anything. Accusing the pilot for that reason is a bad idea. I already explained that it doesn't confirm me either way (and naturally no one will claim to be the pilot because that would be retarded, they can get me lynched even without that and that would prove them scum.)
Shiri2008-09-03 05:27:07
QUOTE(Xavius @ Sep 3 2008, 06:19 AM) 553270
Here's my opinion on your scumminess, nice and succinct:
1) You're being way weird. You railroaded a defense of Rika to spare her a roleclaim, then tried to extract a roleclaim of an investigator. That sort of inconsistency bothers me. Add to it the general defensiveness you've adopted, as opposed to trying to find new scum (lynching quiet people doesn't count), and it seems a natural conclusion that you have a self-serving role.
1) You're being way weird. You railroaded a defense of Rika to spare her a roleclaim, then tried to extract a roleclaim of an investigator. That sort of inconsistency bothers me. Add to it the general defensiveness you've adopted, as opposed to trying to find new scum (lynching quiet people doesn't count), and it seems a natural conclusion that you have a self-serving role.
I keep telling you, "extracting a roleclaim of an investigator" is not scummy. Extracting a scum's identity from a cop, which is really hard to mess up because if they lie then you just lynch them the day after, is a townie activity. Derailing people from bandwagoning someone to death -who hadn't even woken up like 6 hours after the game started- is likewise a townie activity.
As for finding new scum, criticising Saran's approach in the post above me should compensate, and I also do have to consider you and Daganev for this dodgy scenario you keep trying to fit me into. If that's defensive, well, at least it'll get us closer to the truth if I'm lynched.
Saran2008-09-03 05:31:01
QUOTE(Shiri @ Sep 3 2008, 03:23 PM) 553271
I do not recommend Othero. He's not -confirmed- but the alternative scenario to him being a mason with Casilu is really weird: it involves Casilu commenting on how she's always paired with Othero, and him agreeing with it, you thinking they might be indicating they're a scum pair who just "said something they didn't mean to" or whatever, and then Casilu dies and actually is a mason, but with someone else.
In fact, Unvote: Xikue, Vote: Saran as you tried to pressure him before and if you've been reading the thread at all this should have occured to you.
Right. So far we lost an officer with a steely glare, whose role as officer has no real connection to being scum or ... anything. Accusing the pilot for that reason is a bad idea. I already explained that it doesn't confirm me either way (and naturally no one will claim to be the pilot because that would be retarded, they can get me lynched even without that and that would prove them scum.)
In fact, Unvote: Xikue, Vote: Saran as you tried to pressure him before and if you've been reading the thread at all this should have occured to you.
Right. So far we lost an officer with a steely glare, whose role as officer has no real connection to being scum or ... anything. Accusing the pilot for that reason is a bad idea. I already explained that it doesn't confirm me either way (and naturally no one will claim to be the pilot because that would be retarded, they can get me lynched even without that and that would prove them scum.)
I tried to pressure Othero?
hhmm, need to go back and read.
Though a quick look at Ryleths profile makes me believe that Xavius has a night power. A nice little screen cap shows Xavius looking at Ryleths profile 11 minutes before this day started.
Make of that what you will
