Top-Tier combat comes to you, if you participate in any kind of combat.

And you do need high up in skills to be prepared for it (resilience, tumbling, conglunt, focus mind) and for Guardian/Wicca classes you need contemplate.

Sure it's not trans, but that's still pretty steep.

I disagree I fight people all the time, I think I've only had to fight people I knew I couldn't beat maybe 3 times. 2 of the times I picked the fight myself so.

The problem is really the disparity between high and low skill. There should, of course, be a difference, but not nearly to the degree as exists today.

Take one example. Discipline, for the speeding up of Focusbody. Without it, you can be paralysed for a long, long, long time, and that one simple affliction can all by itself destroy your offense. No offense at any level of combat means you're dead.

So, take that example and apply it to someone who is actually new to Lusternia or even mudding in general. They get in, see the skills, decide PK sounds like a lot of fun and they sit down to start designing a wtfpwn system. They start fighting, win and lose a few, have a lot of fun.

Then they run into someone who uses mantakaya effectively, and realize they can't do anything about it, not effectively. So they look at what they need to change their situation, which leads to learning about skills necessary to survive other standard combat situations, which leads to the realization that if they ever are to be the super bad fighter they dreamed of being(and let's just assume they're capable of the things needed to do so), they're going to be dropping at least four, five hundred dollars on this game, even with bonus lessons, before they are even -capable- of being high-tier fighters.

Sure, -I- understand that the cost per hour is miniscule. That overall it's not bad at all. However, if I went and started playing WoW today, and found that I had to unload a hundred bucks to get the ability to cure afflictions before they got me killed? Yeah, no, I'd log out and never come back.

I've payed 60 dollars in total I think, and I have all the trans skills needed.

That's a pointless comment. Sixty isn't enough for but one trans skill, zero if you spread it around much, so you obviously spent time getting credits another way. Which is beside the point when the point is about a new player who has the choice of either sucking at this new game, unloading hundreds of dollars on it, or playing it obsessively for who knows how long(especially since a new player wouldn't know good gold-gathering techniques) for dubious benefits in the distant future.

Charune, you are quite right that time spent bashing your level up and making a system represents can represent a more significant investment of time than earning the credits for skills one way or another, but all that really means is that, hey, it takes even more investment of time to get into combat! Changing the entire bashing system is one thing I wouldn't know where to start, and the tediousness of making your own system is impossible to change without completely reworking the entire game's IRE combat system (read: not happening), but lowering the credit cost of getting into combat is quite addressable and more people may be willing to put in the effort to do the rest themselves rather than simply resign themselves to it not happening.

I suspect few people enjoy PK when it consists of group combat staffpointing over and over before the demigod warriors - or anyone, really - notice you and mow you down, compared to the people who enjoy comparatively skilltesting solo combat or at least combat where you survive a couple seconds. And do something.

Oh sorry I guess complete newbs should just be given the I win button to be top combatants. Or am I not understanding your point, your saying they shouldn't have to pay for perks but also shouldn't have to put in any amount of time to get their skills either? Where should the effort come from, should they just code a system and become god? If you think that, sell the system you coded to get your credits? its all a give and take, you should have to do something to get your lessons not just be handed to you.

Honestly if you made it taboo for a demigod to kill someone 15% their might just because they got into pk with somone else I think you would see a huge growth in combat and player retention.

It's things like this that are so blatently wrong and misinformed that put kinks in the system. People don't pair off during raids and fight it out in duels based on levels and might. Lusternia combat is based around group combat, and if the Admin do not intend for this or do not want it to be this way, then some things need some very drastic changes. At this point in time, 90% of conflict is group combat, so you are going to come across people far about you "station." If you want to survive for more than 3 seconds, you need to have a lot of credits invested. Just in case it's not clear, 3 second fights are not fun.



Bolded for truth. You can only pick and choose who you fight to a point. At some point, the big boys are going to come to you and they aren't going to go easy on you because you aren't trans 7 skills.

In the most literal sense, no, all these trans skills are not needed. You can cosmicfire people to death with nothing past master.

However, everyone needs to look at Lusternia and realize what reality is. Lusternia is a conflict game that leans heavily towards team combat. If the Admin want the majority of players to experience combat beyond 3 second deaths and perma paralysis, then the Admin have to just accept that trans or near trans skills are a necessity.

edit: @Charune-if you were a combatant, and I'm pretty sure you were, you KNOW you don't go for the Demi's first because they take the longest to kill. There is a priority, and the annoying web/judge/etc whoring low might meat shields that go splat in 2 hits are generally high priorities. Mostly because they go splat when you sneeze at them.

I've killed you pre-ascendant with no artifacts nearly instantly. You definitely don't have the trans skills you need.

You're also 65% of my might, which is to say, 10x Trans, several mythical/virt 60 dollars does not buy over half of that. If you have bashed it, that doesn't lessen the amount of credit lessons needed to gain that amount of learning, it just requires a stronger stomach for smashing text monsters.

1 I'd trans influence but I don't think that will help me when it comes to being owned by warriors?

2 I bashed/evented my lessons I may have a stronger stomach you may have a bigger wallet we both took hits from some place. So what is your point I don't get what your getting at. And yes you beat me a long time ago in a class which I consider to be one of the worst classes ever possibly made. While I had about 3 maybe weeks of it under my belt?

My kill counter has you listed at 12, take your pick. I've only killed you twice since Ascendant/Champion and as every class you've ever played. I've also gotten over a thousand of mine from events, but I'm willing to bet you're just downplaying your money investment to try and hide behind it. The point is that it's still grossly more investment than other IRE's require to be able to survive in the combat medium of the game.

I'm also not trans influence, congratulations on a poor guess.

I'm not downplaying the amount of cash I've spent. Your kill count has me at 12, Id be willing to bet most of them are group ganks as we've dueled once? Although I think your numbers are probably way the hell off I'd move to guess lies.

I don't know why you're being so nasty, krin, or why you're being so obtuse about the point we're making. Regardless, you're just not getting it, not even close.

I don't think I've been nasty, at least not to you. Desitrus and I are forum sparring, you might call it. At any rate you believe something I disagree I understand what your saying, your saying you think people can't fight because they -Have- to trans all this stuff. Well as I've said before you dont -Have- to trans all this stuff, you just -Have- to fight people around your level of combat skill, experiance, circle and might.

If you're going to spar please do it somewhere else, this thread can still be productive.

That's just not true, in two ways.

One, which has been mentioned, is that you can't choose who you fight outside of sparring. At all. The only thing I've ever experienced that was one-on-one was Thoros cubixing into Celestia and killing me before leaving. Heck, the first experience I had in fighting here was while I was questing in that haunted mansion whose name I can't quite remember right now. I'd been enemied to the area(before I knew about such things, that's a new mechanic to me) and a Nihilist about three times my might saw me running around after the ghosts. Did that person even attack me? No, they called in two others stronger than I was and all three attacked me. Unless everyone practices restraint and only fights those that can compete, no one can.

Two, the example I used above was Discipline versus mantakaya. Pretty much any warrior, and almost all monks above level 50-ish, can use mantakaya effectively if they so choose. I don't care how good you or your system are, if your Discipline is low and someone knows how to use mantakaya well, you aren't going to win. At best, it'll be a stalemate, and using mantakaya is unrelated to a person's skill, except that which is needed to bash some rats and buy it.

Edit: By the way, this is not the main point of the argument I am making. My main point concerns the way a NEW PLAYER would see all this and then, in almost all cases, say 'Bugger that' or its equivalent and go find a game that allows them to be competitive for the standard fifty dollars or less. Just think about it.

Pretty sure one of the first issues brought up in this thread was about how we should be deleting archetypes.

It's still wrong though.

People seem to be claiming I said things that I did not. I never said anything about whether or not you need Magic or Discipline or Resilience, or at what levels. I said what I said and the important point is bolded.

Maybe this confused us. I don't think anyone ever claimed you need trans dramatics or aethercraft to be combatants, so maybe we assumed "every skill" was referring to magic/reslience/discipline/etc, the ones that were mentioned.

At least, that's what I did.