I'd think the difference in avatar and DL/Supernal power loss is compensated by daughters and what not not costing the seren/glom any power. Angels and demons die on a daily basis where as supernals and demon lords don't die very often. I large problem is not being able to meld. If they meld water, you can always move to Celestia. If they meld Ether, you fight in a meld/liveforest...which is a "hell no."..or leave.

Also, can't they harvest shadow essence from ethereal?

1. The daughters don't respawn. Angels and demons do, meaning they're around to clump and protect the avatars.
2. Yeah, the meld difference is the main problem - it makes raiding Celestia in particular way too hard to repel because the defenders can't feasibly get out of the pool and to a break point before being ganked. Raiders don't need it so easy.
3. Maybe liveforest should just copy ripple. At least you can cure under liveforest, but keeping your group together is a hassle.
4. Even out the liveforest and ripple tics so they don't leave you alone for a while and then permastun/web the crap out of you like they do now. A simple 1/10 should do it.
5. Gorgulu is easily as strong as avatars. Maybe he needs a nerf too if the avatars do.
6. No we can't harvest shadow essence from Ethereal...at least not that I know about. If you mean the centipedes and stuff when you raid, you guys can do that too (there usually aren't any though, since they -also- require effort to appear.)

I don't think they need to be nerfed, at all.

You should just not be able to Flow wherever we are, and have no way of protecting ourselves from demesnes, which usually equate to winning for who controls it.

And yeah, Flux > Liveforest > Ripple, as far as protecting your plane from large raids.

Not sure what you mean here.

1. Flowing is now suicide because it doesn't take entourages. This means 2/5 of a defending force against 5/5 of a raiding force. Np.
2. On Ethereal you do indeed have a way of protecting yourself from defender demesnes if one's even set up beforehand - you can break them. If you couldn't, which was the case in the past, it would be overpowered and need nerfed (which it was.) If you meant cosmic, yeah, once the attackers have a demesne set up it's pretty damn hard to fight under even or advantageous terms again.

1. If somebody is raiding Etherwilde/Glom, it's not like raiding Nil/Celestia, the goal is for the Avatars. One person getting there can stop the whole thing, the last Nil raid there were only six people in the room that killed a group of 20+ at Nifilhema (of course, two of those six were Karnagan/Vathael who pack a punch). So it's 2/5 of a defending force + two Super mobs against 5/5 of a raiding force. Np.

2. Can you taint Ethereal, just not meld? If so, ignore this: you still regen in forest environment, are attunted to maybe forest environment, and can thornrend? or other only in forest location skills. Or just set up the demesne effects in just one room.

2.5. Not to mention, you only need to break one room and then you are at even terms again.

1. With the other changes it would be more like raiding Celestia, so the goal isn't just for the Avatars.
2. No you can't taint ethereal just not meld, however I could accept that compromise with the same thing on the cosms.
2.5. Eh?

1. Sounds like balance to me, then.

2. What? I know I can't taint ethereal, and I can't meld if it's not tainted.

2.5 In response to your raiding Cosmic, they(raiders) are only on advantgeous terms when they are in their demesne, and you know where the breakpoints are when they set up a Cosmic demesne.

1. Yep.
2. That's what I was saying. I could agree to a compromise where you could taint it but not meld it, to prevent attune/racial regen/setting up effects like liveforest in the room instead of as a demesne. That way the raiders still do not have an advantage they should be prepared to do without, but they aren't forced to expose themselves to the defenders having the same advantage. Ripple and liveforest would both hopefully stun, but on a regular tick instead of the erratic stuntrain crap ripple sometimes does now.
2.5 Ok. But they -are- in their demesne, that's a premise. You usually can't even get to the breakpoints because you're trapped at the Pool with the demesne, probably a pit and a gank-squad under you (who aren't too retarded to chase a bit if you somehow run down and tumble past before they notice.)

It's difficult to break a Cosmic meld, but it's hardly impossible. I used to break Forren's all the time with half of Celest chasing after me.

It's quite literally impossible to effectively break a Seren meld in Etherwilde. I guess you can trueground, but beyond that, you just have to deal with a meld...and druid demesnes are the worst. Flow+liveforest+druid demesne = picking apart the enemy with ease. There is a reason I've only ever seen 2 legitimate Etherwilde raids since I started playing.

Gorgulu (And Raz) is rough, but there is only one of him....and the other DLs don't defend him. It's funny. Last etherwilde raid, we were trying to avoid albion because we didn't think we had the numbers to take her, so we attacked Luna (I think) and Albion showed up anyways.

When was the last time either Seren or Glom lost all their Avatars?

I am about 80% certain this here is wrong. You can break it, you just can't put your own there.

Glom lost 2/3 + wyrdling maybe 3-4 months ago

How? I Mentioned trueground, but what else can you do to break it? You can't taint/flood etherwilde, much less meld it. Unless you are trying to say that a geo can geocast forcetaint and break the meld....only it doesn't taint. I can't say I've ever experienced this, but that would be totally weird if that was the case.

Also: I've seen Mag lose ALL DLs numerous times since I've been playing, and Celest has lost the Supernals a few times as well. I'm pretty sure the same can't be said about the forests.

I don't actually know how. I think it might be the scenario you called totally weird (and you'd be right.) I'm just pretty sure it can be done.

Maybe, and avatars being tough has something to do with it, but mostly it's due to lack of effort. We've downed Gwyllgi and Glumki back when liveforest was worse than ripple, then just not gone for Lhiannan even when the liveforest cleared up or on another occasion. We don't do that stuff much, the level of conflict is different. Serenwilde doesn't off your demon lords a lot either. And I don't think Glom has tried to go for the Supernals at all.

I really don't think raiding ethereal and cosmic can be equally compared.

For one, while raiding cosmic is much easier it also MEANS LESS. If an angel dies, oh well, you lose 5 power and it respawns in an hour anyhow. Ladies / Daughters can only be gotten back by doing a quest. Raiding ethereal is harder but you can also cause much more damage.

What I really DO think needs a change, is the fact that the Aspect nest in EthGlom is right above the Ravenwood. Dragging into guards super easy? *gg* It should seriously be moved to some other place to be as easy accessible as EVERY OTHER ASPECT AREA. kthx.

that has been asked so many times

The problem with the ethereal planes was that they got buffed up like this because of the old ethereal battles, but really the archways should of been enough. And they should probably make all nexus locations (and only the nexus locations) except astral to reject demesnes instead. (eg, all of ethereal, water, earth, celestia and nil should be meldeable except the nexus).

And while daughters and ladies have to be quested for, a lot more of them hang out at smobs then they do on celestia and nil, besides the quest brings in power .

Someone should bring up the double standard with forcing people of a nexus and ask to either fix it that we all can use our skills to do so or so nobody can do it.

and as an afterthought, it is easier to keep people from leaving the pool and ravenwood, then it is keeping them from leaving the megalith and motherhart (2 exits VS 1 exit)

and now more with my own concerns:
I hope someone brings up the problems with the seduce influence (eg. legal method of evading avenger by using a mob, more often a lot of mobs like in the UV to kill people). Also the solution is not really to make it avenger dependend because that would also make it utterly useless. Giving it a better use like getting discounts in comm shops and getting more gold with bounty mobs might be one thing.

And hopefull get imbued items nerfed so it can no longer be stockpiled for more then a few hours.

Can't you influence angels / demons for power? I know influencing ladies doesn't bring in power, so I'd say the quest balances that.

EDIT: Two exits at nexus also means "unbreakable demesne" that you transverse into.

nexus object is a different area so it does not matter (unless that got fixed)

-edit- also it is only true for Serenwilde, nil has a triangle exit thing, making it breakable

Regarding Ethereal:

1. Move the Nest away from the Ravenwood.

2. Move the archways back to their old locations.

3. Allow Glomdoring to convert essence by putting it in the vat in the Black Tower. Being the only org with an easily killable power-converter is a clear imbalance.

Please? I like my guildhall alive.

Breaking a druid demesne on Ethereal is done by force terraining. The terrain doesn't actually change, but it breaks the meld.