Oh and btw, if you cut the damage of mages by 30%, and gave them a double hit, you would affectivly be MUCH better than any warrior. You'll be doing 1/3 more damage, and you'll be having more crits than axelords etc.

Not to mention all the side affects of not having to maintain more balances and worrying about things that disrupt that balance.

No, I don't know it.

Most characters don't reach level 85 even.

I assumed the people actually looking at the code could handle the exact percentage, it was just a suggestion. Cutting it by 50% would probably still be better.

But Sojiro's idea sounds pretty good, to leave damage the same and just let us hit a bit faster. Sounds simple to implement too.

Dag, at your previous comment, Wiccans MB uses your hand, so, two hands, ba-dam, set. But that's not fair.

Seriously, if we just smacked a bit harder, it'd be nice.

I'm hoping you're kidding.

I wouldn't include Bards also. They bash fine in my opinion nowadays.

Heh, left and right brain EQ balance.

Of course I was, bards bash and kill with minor second a straight speed boost would be bad news.

If the point is all about the crits then bards should get something too or added denezin defese equal to warriors if their tankyness is why the specs without multiple hits are fine.

I dont see how you can say crits matter so. If warriors edge out over monks which is a rather accepted belief. They hit 1/3 less crits then monks do so.

roflcopter

Edit: Actually, that's perfectly right. In fact, as a Psionics user I have left, right and hind brain balance!

Seriously, I think bards can bash as fast, if not faster, than warriors. They can do so much more damage, and they aren't even that much slower.

Warriors and Monks bash faster than most classes for a variety of reasons.

1. As stated, the increased attack(s) affords increased criticals, which results in faster bashing in the long run (I disagree that monks bash "slower" than other classes at lower levels too. Warriors - maybe. Monks - no.)

2. Warriors and Monks can effectively ignore circle/pentagram whoring denizens. This has two major effects:

+ It makes bashing easier. If a necrotroph casts pentagram, and you can raze/attack it, it won’t continue to attack you. Its next attack will be to re-pentagram.

+ It makes bashing faster. If a necrotroph casts pentagram, you can raze/attack it. If you cannot raze/attack, you have to wait for the necrotroph to attack to drop pentagram, hit it, and if you did not achieve a kill, watch it pentagram again, wait for it to attack, etc. With high level denizens, it may shield 3-4 times (or more) before you kill it. That adds up to be 5-10 seconds extra per kill. Over time, this is MASSIVE.

3. And finally, racial selection is a minor (although important) factor to consider. Generally, two statistics make the most impact in PvE: damage modifying (warriors=strength, monks=dexterity, everyone else=intelligence) and constitution. There are significantly more races with high end strength/dexterity and high end constitution races versus high end intelligence with high end constitution.

Bashing at high levels as has been said before is all about crits, you hit alot less than me but crit a hell of a lot more you will kill things faster. I hit rather fast so I can crit fairly well but I will still be outpaced by a knight with my crit rate usually. Also the above was right on the spot with raze being another key factor. We can hit at the same equivalent damgae rate but once shield goes up knight/monk will take the win.

Note monks hit really really weak so while they do kill faster it does take awhile to get that kind of thing going, and we dont know how they will be effected with momentum as much, well some might. But we will have to see on that one.

Faster bashing ftw?

I'm not saying I like it completely, but I agree with daganev's above statement.

The reason that isn't a fair trade is because up to around level 80, non-Warriors and non-Monks are a bit better at bashing, unless the monk/warrior has some nice weapons with a rune.

Post-level 80, Warriors are exponentially better at bashing.

You can just say, "oh you're better before and they're better after." You have to say "Or, you're better before, but they're extremely better after."

I'd just like to say that if you want to make guardians / mages hit twice to increase the rate of crits, you need to give them the same chance that warriors and monks have to actually miss with their attacks too. Right now it is impossible to miss with magical attacks, and believe it or not, it makes bashing more reliable.

Vastly better as they cannot miss with their attacks, and because crits play only a small role in low level bashing. In higher level bashing it changes though, and that's why monks / warriors become better.

Truthfully though, I understand if you want to buff guardian bashing. It was horrible with cosmicfire, though I'm not sure what it is like with symbol.

However, mage bashing is -insane- already. I remember when I was bashing with Forren. If I was a mugwump Moondancer I could -just so- keep up with him, and Moondancers make good bashers. As human Moondancer I had no chance - his kill count would be about 1/3 higher than mine. And we both killed fairly rapidly.

Like I said, I've never been a Mage, just going on what some other people said.

Druid and Guardian bashing seems to be the worst over all though. Maybe I'm just bitter because that's the two classes I've been.

Mage Bashing is insane. I miss it. The symbol just isn't the same.

Well, you have to realize there'll always be differences. Alone the fact that warriors / monks can miss with their attacks whereas magic classes cannot means you cannot entirely bring those on the same level. Some classes / race combinations are also good for bashing but horrible at pvp. Others are just great utility.

If guardian / druid bashing is so far below the rest perhaps give it a slight push by increasing dmg or making the bashing attack faster. Just make sure not to mess with pvp or any other things while doing so ( I swear changes in lusternia are prone for such consequences - the "no climbing into trees while indoors" is still my favourite one. ).