So far we've had a few skill set reviews (Dreamweaving, Wildarrane, Necromancy). Often important suggestions are made AFTER the fact and may not be implemented at all (see Dreamweaving).

I'd like to see a forum or in game announcement that certain skill sets will be reviewed and whom to contact to submit your suggestions.

Envoys, talk to your envoys.

they announced these skill reviews months ago.

http://forums.lusternia.com/index.php?showtopic=15877 (as an example). This was an Envoy-thread looking for ideas. It's happened for some of the other skillsets, too, though I don't think Dreamweaving was. That was the choice of the Envoys who wanted the Dreamweaving report, however.

These skill-things are pretty much always done through Envoys. That's the job description, after all.

More specific. On X date or around X month we will be discussing Sacraments for example. Talkan has been great, but to jog the memory of the player base (specifically those who have invested in multiple characters) I'm suggesting that it be announced.

I'm not quite sure you understand how the reports are done. They asked us (the envoys) what skillsets we thought needed review. We told them. We were told to put together our own reports for those skillsets, discuss them, and submit them.

I believe people would want some more transparency with these special reports.

I only knew about the runes report because nessa was constantly asking for things, the rest of them have been "Oh so we were doing necromancy this time and it's done now... ok then..."

What's the reports are currently being worked on? what suggestions have been made already? When is it likely to be done?

And so on

The relative opacity of the envoy process is one of its best features. It's unfortunate that not all envoys embrace the anonymity to discuss balance frankly, but most do. The last thing the process needs is more pressure from the rank and file.

The envoys were given a chance to submit requests to have special reports. Most were accepted and given a chance to have a special report. The next reports are, I believe, Nihilism and Crow. (Crow has been submitted)

Then don't be surprised when people are ed when they read the announce about the report they wanted to contribute to.

For example, someone prompted by the recent Necromancy changes might have been whipped into gear to come up with ideas for crow, unfortunately they've just been informed that it's already submitted... aww too bad for them

Also I don't care if envoys do not discuss changes to other skills within their guild, however guilds should be kept in the loop when skills that they have are being changed within these reports.

It's not the hardest thing to mention, "The Aquamancy report is set to be submitted any final comments or queries before it goes through?"

It's the guild that most often needs to be kept out of the loop. There've been a couple prominent examples of angry mortal leadership demanding upgrades from their envoys. I know that I personally benefited lots from not telling the average Blacktalon that there would be no substantial druid upgrade on my watch. Crow needed help in a way that would benefit warriors and druids both, and that was one of my big pushes. Runes and Dreamweaving needed upgrades in ways that would benefit mages more than druids. Druid combat needed (read: needs) options for combat that aren't tied to the demesne so tightly. I worked on those things. I sure didn't need to deal with the latest BT transfer or fourth-tier fighter-to-be who thought the guild would be so much cooler if sap was a room attack, scarab gave anorexia 50% of the time, or swoop was a half mana kill. If you think I'm exaggerating here, all three of those are actual, serious suggestions from BT combatants whose names you would know.

I very much disagree. It's the envoy's prescribed role to act specifically as a liason between the guild and the administration for game balance purposes, centered around combat skills. Envoys need to communicate to their guild. That said, guild leaders should not be pressing envoys for unreasonable upgrades.

What if your envoy makes a mistake and doesn't submit a skillset for review that -really- needs one?

I suppose we're screwed then aren't we? Because in the end it's the opinion of one which skillsets gets reviewed and which does not.

My two cents about the runes submission.

Nessa <3 spent like... two or three hours just discussing options and ideas with everyone on the calas (now the envoy clan too which all Hartstone can join)
There wasn't too much of a surprise when I saw the review because some things I recognised from the discussion.

EDIT: A cool fact, it's not unusual it happened with most envoy submissions.

Gregori uphold the tradition... or... I unno, I'll cry

Make a new thread, and post the following, or (even better) have Lisaera post the following:

"There will be no future events or quests that reinforce the traditional Moondancer view of the fae and how they interact with Moon and Night. We, the gods, do not believe it to be reasonable, and I agree with the consensus. I consider it my responsibility to the future of the game to see that Moondancer ideology is disregarded so that a more Glomdoring-friendly canon can be established and I will continue to do so as long as I am patron of the Moondancers. Please feel free to continue to tell me what you want to see from events so that I may repeat the above, because I know you aren't going to ask for the fae to serve Night out of love."

Actually I was just thinking last night how Glomdoring fighting to be a viable alternative that the fae might want to go to makes me a sad panda.
The idea of a forest using the powers of nature without a care for how said powers feel was such a cooler image. Seriously, they slaughter small babies, why should they care if some little faerie doesn't want to help them just make them do it anyway

/derail

I've made at least three different threads on that subject already for player ideas and input. Given the way it's gone over in the past when submitted, I needed to take less of a player-route and more of a discussion with the Administration one to find a direction that seemed acceptable. I think it has the potential to be neat if it goes over, but you can bet I did take the previous ideas and comments of others into consideration, as well as current ideas from those who were interested (current/ex Blacktalon, some Ebonguard/ex-Ebonguard, etc).

(Also, the Crow report was submitted before the Necro one, so it wouldn't have been able to "benefit" from the prompting of recent Necromancy changes anyways...)

Ya know.. good ideas aren't just something that you can just pull out of thin air whenever you want.. just sayin'.

Except the players did have some good ideas. The problem wasn't the player ideas, it was working with the Administration to come up with a concept they liked (and I think we managed that, but we'll see).

Agreed, wholeheartedly.



True, you won't always get fair or balanced opinions from all your guildmembers - some simply won't have any concept of proper combat balance, or will push for changes that make their guild OP. But you should at least let them air any concerns they might have, and voice suggestions. How hard is it to listen to and then completely ignore the horribad ones? Heaven forbid that you might actually get a workable concept from someone else.

That being said, the only concern I have for any Elementalism/Aquamancy report is to change DoorBlast or replace it with a skill that isn't so abysmally worthless. And if said report has already gone through, Y U NOT TELL ME MARIELLO?!