I think that about sums up my argument against the 21 for 20 notion.

I really like the getting lessons concept though. For some reason, when I was first reading the mentor scrolls some two years ago, I thought that the lessongain from teaching worked that way *shrug* Perhaps as another idea if the bonus lessons thing doesn't do it, teaching could gain you esteem? Karma?

To Shaddus: the Paladins, at least (I'm not so clear on other guilds) have a very strong emphasis on "get a mentor ASAP". I don't think mechanical changes are necessary to steer novices towards getting a mentor. The exp bonus alone should be more than enough.

EDIT: Good lord, two full pages of posts in an hour? Whyyyyy....

The few times I've had proteges, I never thought to have them buy credits, they were just novices that wanted me to mentor them, so I did. So I DO deny farming credits. Next Gregori is going to say 'everyone who is, was, or ever wanted to be a Guide is only there for the credits and not the novices'

Shaddus has about 8 proteges. Shaylene, Janalon, Masada, and a few others. Only one has ever bought credits, and I give my proteges half of what I get.

For instance, imagine Shaylene buys 200 credits. I get 30. Which means I give her 15. It's not much at the lower levels of buying, but it sort of helps them out.

Now, I'm not saying ALL people should do this, just saying not everyone is out there "farming novices". For instance, I had an alt in Celest who was in the Paladins. This alts mentor, RIGHT after aggreeing to mentor, let her know that she should buy more credits at once, if she does, so that he can get more credits at once.

Isn't that against the rules? Y'know, the one that says "under no circumstances are you to tell your protege to buy credits" or something like that? I forget the exact wording but I'm 99% sure there was a clause akin to that in the help files somewhere.

I wouldn't doubt it. However, not liking to cause trouble :eyeshift: that alt isn't around any more.

No Arix, not everyone who has proteges has them for credits. Nor did I say that was the case. I said that people do do it, and that is the case. It is happening, and yes, there are guides past, present, and future who have done it, do it now, or will do it solely for the credits as well.

I apologise if the real world is a harsh place that you can't accept. Feel free to bury your head in the sand and refuse to see it.

They way you said it made it sound to me as if you were calling all the mentors credit farmers

A skill for mentors to see skills of a protege. Easier to assist them with learning if you have an idea what they are doing with their lessons.

A skill for mentors to either teleport to or summon their proteges, ala champion artifact. Quite often the little rascals get themselves into trouble and need quick assistance. I am sure you can make it so it can't be abused by enemy territory, or players can just police it and it can be shrubbable if caught abusing it.

The GA artifacts do this, only for all guild novices, not just your own proteges. And apart from bringing them to guild rites a few times (back when we still had them) I've used it precisely once. It seems like a useful idea but in practice it really never pans out. (Of course, the mentor/protege version could have less or no delay, or be immune to monoliths, either of which would make it potentially useful. The GA one is identical to Planar except the power cost.)

Both ideas I'd like, but isn't teleport redundant? Since like... just about everyone has Planar Teleport anyways? I think that a mentor should be able to summon his/her proteges through any grace they might have, though. Or did you mean for something more like PROTEGE RESCUE and swap places with them?

Question: I know that at some GR, one gains the ability to see the skills/score of underlings in the guild, but I don't know at what rank it is. What rank unlocks it?

GR19

At least, I'm fairly sure.

You have to be in an Elected Position I thought...

You have to be in an Elected Position I thought...

I'm certain you can do those at GR19. I don't know if you can do it lower, but I don't think you can.

I can do it at GR19.

would It be proper to tell a novice who didn't have a mentor when they learned their lessons to forget them and re-learn them to get the bonus 5%?

...

Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

This just raised a possible problem in my mind, Estarra. What happens if a novice learns their 100, and gets 4 bonus lessons... and then does FORGET SKILL (which should return all lessons, not in lesson pools). Then does that 4 more times for another 16, at which point they get 5 each time...

It would take a while, but that could be a problem.

On a related note, if they could do that, couldn't it lead to infinite lessons? Learn 20, get 21, forget (free as a novice freshman), learn 20, get 21...... I know the admins say they're going to watch for it, but it's still -possible-, and the effects of the abuse can still screw with the game, even if the offender is shrubbified.

EDIT: Damn you, Xenthos.

Krin actually brought up something logical for a change. You can forget skills with no loss as a novice. Whats to keep you from learning over and over? Beyond the threat of punishment of course, because that doesn't stop a lot of people, so chances are some will get away with it.

Edit: Of course, you could do that before and the teacher will benefit, and I've never heard of it being done. It all depends on if the novice gets that 1 extra lesson when they forget the skill.

You could, but it was always a really minuscule amount and never worth it (especially since the rate never increased). However, if you get 500 lessons, that's 25 free lessons every time you do it. I think learning is what, 10 seconds? Or was it shortened? Even at 10 seconds, that's 4 minutes for every 25 lessons. Or basically 1 credit per minute.