Really. That's why non-warriors post numbers of achieving health greater than 8000. That's why I can pass 7500 health as a Faeling without surge (and a Demi base constitution of 13, which any Kephera can easily bypass-- they have 14 base pre-Demi!). I'm not sure you really have an understanding of just how pervasive +health benefits are, but they come from: 1) Tosha (and related quests), 2) Favours, 3) More from TrueFavours, 4) Life Blessing, 5) Yellow, 6) Various other guild skills (such as Moon's Shine), 7) +Health artifacts, and so on.

As I said, your threshold is far too low. For anyone in the upper levels, hitting 7500 is very plausible, even without surge. Further, non-Warriors tend to have more all-around protections than warriors (excepting Moon/Night ones).

I have a 14 cont, and with a Skull Sphere, Descendant, Fortuna ticking right, Ablution, Benediction, ETC, I can get at least 5500+ health. This is at my lazymans Level 63. If I ever put the effort in to actually level up, I would become unreasonably tanky for a Celestine.

EDIT: On the same token, Using a negative Skull and Binah together could have a serious impact on somebodies Const. Surge could in theory be dealt with, and the rest of the basin would be in a fair bit of trouble if it was a Conjuct Sphere and a full 3pt Binah.

The concept is solid that if implemented will be better than the current situation where someone is doing 2k damage both to someone with 3k health and someone with 10k health..
The thing is - where to work the buffs? the runes, and the other things. For example - base will be affected by runes(mysticmight, etc..), int/cha. Then the sliding component will be affected by karma war, truefavours, etc.. Then what about the afflictions like omen/sensitivity/acromaticaura? - since they are afflictions, I guess they should buff the total amount..

Xenthos:

First: Faeling demigod base con is 11. You are talking Shadowlord Faeling if you say 13.

Second: Your base of 7000+ assumes lvl 100 players. I've mentioned before that the combat entrance level has apparently moved to demigod / ascendant, simply because of -damage-. Your assumption of average health confirms that. However, I was talking about level ~80 people, and health ranges at that level, not at demigod. My estimate of 3k+ (mugwump, faeling) up to 5k+ on average holds true (yes warriors will be the other end of the scale, even there).


Rika:

Surge is fine, but having people max health to 10k+ while others have even at lvl 100 only half of that is ridiculous. Of course higher health should make more resilient versus damage, but NOT TO THIS EXTENT. The difference is simply way too high.

So what's up with that level 63 player who is getting 5500 health with 14 con, hm? And that does not even seem to include Tosha. Get that to 80 and a Tosha added onto it, and it should easily getting into the 7000s. Now, that is including astrology buffs in their favour, but I didn't even list those in my large list of +health benefits. There are a huge number of the things.

It's nowhere near as impossible as you seem to think for level 80 folk to get near that range. I did all the time when I was hunting levels 84-85.

I'm level 80 with 14 con and a life blessing and I have 4.6k. I'm not sure how much Tosha would net me, but I doubt I would have 7000 health.

And I can't surge. I don't know astrology. And should we balance a game around a quest? I don't even know how to do it, but I've heard it requires you to collect a lot of things, which may or may not be available.

Toss on the same things that Demis are using to get their absurd health levels (which is what is really being discussed here), and you'll be breaking 7,000. You should have at least +2 con, +15% from Tosha, +10-+15% from the artifact rune, and so on.

If you make the upper limit in the 7000s, which IS reachable way before Demi...

Where does that +2 con come from?

Demi or truefavour, at a guess.

1 baby favour and a con platter, or a Truefavour. It's possible to stack multiple Truefavours as well, but figured it wasn't worth going that far.

The little favours are exceedingly easy to get, just offer a little bit to an active God. A very little bit.

I'm getting tired of repeating myself, Xenthos. You are not even reading my posts. I never said 5k+ health is impossible for non-lvl 100 people. I did however say that warriors edge around that end of the scale. Likewise (and it seems I have to add that now) powerplayers often are too as they have the time to stack every buff they can find (and Lusternia offers a lot). However, you cannot entirely balance after this minority.

Go around and discern people at level ~80. You will find them having between 3-5k health depending on their race.

Also, saying people can just stack truefavours.. where do they come from I ask you? There have only been very few gods that gave out TF's when random people -asked- for them. Generally though, for most people being TF'd is the exception - not the rule. Likewise, keeping a con platter up 24/7 is too expensive. People who do not play for several hours -each rl day- won't manage to keep up Tosha all the time either. People who do not put excessive effort into bashing / influencing won't have all karma blessings that may help with their damage, health etc either. The list goes on.

What you are assuming, Xenthos, is a lvl 100 powergaming player. What I am trying to tell you is that the game SHOULD NOT be balanced solemnly around those people. People who do not play as much, who do not have lvl 100, who do not have thousands of cr invested into credits, who do not bash / influence every day to keep up their karma blessings, who do not spend time on questing for Tosha and related every day, who do not have surge should have a chance too.

In a very very short summary, my original point is still the same: The average difference in health is way too high. The effect health has in damage attacks is way too strong. Reduce it, and make regeneration and sip boni matter too. Right now faelings, for all their sip boni won't stand a chance either if they have 4k health max (and that's demigod faeling health) and someone's attack does 2k+ to them. It won't matter if they sip for 2k because that person won't need 6s+ for their next attack. 3 combos and they are dead regardless. To damage.

If damage scaled to max health, those people would actually have a chance instead of being run under the damage train that is Lusternia right now. Combat would also require a bit more than spamming the most effective damage attack over and over.

Perhaps you need to read again. I said that people could stack Truefavours, but I also said I was not counting it in the generic list of buffs I responded with. I listed things that are easy to get. A normal favour (offer 50 kepherans or so), a constitution platter (available in shops), doing a relatively simple quest that nets experience as well... the only thing tough there is the artifact (which they want people to buy).

Also, where am I assuming level 100? I'm talking in the level 80 range here. I'm talking from my own experience as a level 84-86 Faeling for over a RL year. If I was talking 100, I would have just repeated that I can currently break 7500 with nothing but my +10% health rune and surge (so all of those other +health things become completely useless, and anyone with a higher con race than me is just out of luck). And I am also saying that these sort of things (and their availability) need to be kept in mind for there to be any sort of balancing. Completely ignoring them, and just throwing in a half-hearted attempt at scaling, is going to end up breaking other things (skills, quests, artifacts...).

Scaling more than currently is good, but to the degree you seem to be arguing is just stifling. The 'soft cap' needs to be up at a number that is difficult to reach. Keep in mind that even if the cap is higher up, it will still be scaling (so the extra health will still have less and less effect up until that point), but it should never be "essentially no" effect.

And you're welcome to read the point, so you don't have to repeat yourself.

I don't think she could have made it any clearer that her numbers were not the ones she wanted to be put in, that was to be left to envoys and the actual admins making the changes. The entire purpose of this thread was to introduce the idea of scaling damage more to health.

And I figured it up, and if I had Tosha, Con platter, life blessing, favours, and the 10% life artifact, I think I'd come out somewhere around 6k health.

That's about four thousand short of 10k.

Perhaps you missed that I'm an envoy, and I'm making the exact same points I would be making in that discussion. There are a lot of things left out in this idea, and they needed to be pointed out. They need to be considered when even framing the discussion to begin with (when/if the Admin decide to look into this, they need to be aware of just how much is going to be affected by this and how much needs to be considered, and it needs to be a part of the initial proposal). Given that this thread is set up to discuss the idea and float it to the admins... there's no better place to work on setting up that framing. There is much more to this idea than simply introducing a scaling rate and leaving things at that.

PS: I think you're a bit short on your count there. Just Tosha and the 10% artifact itself should be getting you nearly to 6k. Further, the discussion is not about reaching 10k, it's about getting into the 7000s. If the soft cap is in that range, it doesn't matter if you can get any higher-- no matter how much more health you have, it has almost no impact on percent-damage taken.

Just saying you should make it sound less like you're trying to shoot it down.

Well, when she moves into the "I'm going to defend this to the death!" at 7500 (despite saying that the numbers weren't 'set in stone,' that is what she ended up doing, especially when she said that health past a certain amount should be worthless), I'm going to point out that there's a massive flaw there and point out why. So, yes, I'm shooting down that as well as pointing out the number of other things that need to be considered, but not the idea of scaling in general (which I believe I stated around my very first post in this thread, though that was ignored).

Actually, normally, 3k is just a bit north of of 80. I'm at 3046 right now and am 82. If I get every last buff I can, personally, I'm at 4k, but only on EtherSeren.

It's not me who is ignoring numbers, Xenthos, it's you. I'm not going to repeat (again) what I said twice now. Just read through the posts in this thread to see where your mistakes lie. 7k is at the high end of the scale, not the normal average, whether you like that fact or not.

No, 7k is not at the high end of the scale. It's possible to reach it in the 80s, even as a non-warrior. I'm not saying it is a normal average, but it IS attainable a long, long ways before getting anywhere near the high end.

No, it's definitely not average. You have to consider that most of the buffs (if not all that you listed) people will not have available to them 24/7. Either because they cannot control it (ie. divine favours) because they do not have the gold or time to maintain them (tosha or con platters would be an example.

However, let's be generous and assume that everyone has a con buff of 1k on them at any given time.

The health levels at 80 should normally lie between 3k (low end) to 4-5k (average) to 6k (high end) 7k+ (extremely high end, usually warriors with surge).

With the 1k boni that would be: 4k (low end) to 5-6k (average) to 7k (high end) + warriors above that.

No matter how you see it, 7k is no where near average for lvl 80 people. As a matter of fact, as a demigod with +15% life rune I don't break 8k health as male kephera (that's 16 con + 15%).

Your assumption -is- off, Xenthos.

PS: To clarify, I'm not saying it's impossible to reach 7k as lvl 80. I'm just saying it's a minority of people that reach it at that level regularly, and that the majority has health below that. Occasionally even far below it.