... I like how you see me saying it's not an average and decide to argue that I said it is. And then accuse me of not reading. While, at the same time, putting up numbers that show what I was actually saying is correct (you've got people in the 80s breaking 7k in your list right there).

Thanks, I guess, for agreeing. Though you put a lot more effort into it than you needed to!

I was going to quote your posts, but I realized it would be too long. However something you have repeatedly said is that it is "easy" for lvl 80 to get into the 7k range.

That is the point I disagree with, because "easy" would (imo) mean that most people always run around with 7k or can get enough buffs stacked onto within a few minutes at any given time to reach 7k. Show me and I'll believe it (no surge does not count. ). Until then I find it far more likely to believe that the general health of people is between 4-5k (6k with buffs. The odd 7k -if- you stack -alot- of things. "odd" referencing "not your average" here).

I'd actually like you to quote the post where I said that. I just went and did a search / read through of all my posts in this thread. I've used the word "easy" twice before this. Both times were in reference to certain buffs which are easy to get-- because, well, they are.

I did, however, say that the soft cap needs to be at a number that's difficult to reach. If a number can be reached at 80, it's not difficult to reach.

First: Post #25 would be a good example.

Second: I -never- -once- argued anything even close to a soft cap or started specififying numbers for anything at all, -including- any sort of cap. I never even mentioned anything about a cap. That was your idea. I don't even know what this "cap" is supposed to achieve exactly. Or why you want it.

If you say that 7k is too low for your "cap" then I don't know about that, because I neither care about your cap, nor know what you want it for. However, what I -did- say was that 7k is NOT YOUR AVERAGE HEALTH. Yeesh.

You mean 25, where I said it wasn't as impossible as you seemed to be implying (and which your more recent posts have actually come out and agreed with)? There's a difference between saying it's not impossible, and saying it's easy. Edit: Ah, I see, you're referring to the part up above that when I was talking about one specific case of a guy with 14 con, a number of Celestine buffs, and the Astrology things on top of it which should get him to a nice total-- which he himself acknowledged when he put up his original numbers.

Further, you can see where the soft cap is simply by referring to that 1.6% thing again (and I know you saw it, because you've referenced it a number of times). The base influences where the soft cap will be. The lower the base (and the more damage that's done on a percent scale), the lower the health limit where there's actually any real impact whatsoever. Scaling as an idea introduces a soft cap. As higher numbers have less and less of an effect on the percent taken, eventually it reaches a point where there really is no more noticeable change-- which is a cap. It's even your intended goal!

I also agreed that 7,000 is not an average, but it is achievable at 80. As such, once you factor in the fact that there are another 20 levels and 2 points of racial constitution tagged on at the end of that... it's not nearly at the high-end of achievable ranges. It is the high-end for the 80s range, but if you're scaling and you have the upper limit of effectiveness in the 7000s (which can be hit at 80), then there's no real gain from going further.

To even consider introducing scaling, this is all stuff that needs to be thought through.

Xenthos, are you sure you're not Daganev or Xon in disguise? I've said before I'm not bothering to define details. Other people can get headaches discussing that.

I'll just repeat myself (again):

Damage is unbalanced currently. The max health of players between 80-100 ranges between 3-10k+. In other words the range is -far- too high to be able to balance attacks accordingly. What is a "high damage attack" at those ranges? 3k so the 10k health person notices? But then it insta kills the low health people. 1k and the 3k health people can handle, but the 10k aren't even going to notice.

My personal idea for a solution? Make damage scale according to max health. Give it a base damage to factor in that low health people -still- suffer more from damage attack than high health people. However, reduce the -extreme- difference we currently face. Yes this means that high health will be less effective - at least in pvp. Yes it also means that low health people will (hopefully) not get insta killed by damage alone anymore.

My numbers were -examples-. I don't want anything to do with the details. Quit trying to dump them on me!

Who is Xon, anyways?

Anyways, you're putting an idea in ideas! You put up some numbers to begin with (your suggestions): "My personal idea is to change most (if not all) attacks to have a set base damage (say 500-1000)". I delved into that a bit. I pointed out that these numbers have some issues, and you decided to take offense, including going on to say that 7000 health is a good high-end number. It's really not.

That said, yes, I am very detail oriented. Always have been. If you don't want to deal with the details, well, you don't have to-- but this is the place to discuss preliminary details if you want this to go anywhere with any success at all. Simply putting out a nebulous "make damage scale" will have as much of an effect as when that was submitted in the Necromancy report: None whatsoever.

Which is why I didn't say "make damage scale. Period." but put out example figures to go along with it, so people could imagine better what I was aiming for.

That there would be way more details involved was clear. Besides, usually what is eventually implemented it something else than was asked for anyhow. Additionally, whatever envoys ask for is usually not revealed to the general public either. At least not in advance. So why debate whether a base should be 500 or 1500 (numbers used as EXAMPLE)?

What the envoys end up asking for may not be, but the preliminary framework that we end up working on (when it comes from the IDEAS forum at least) is the stuff that gets hammered out in the thread. Having the detail and information in the thread that gives everyone a good foundation to work from is also essential, so that it's not stuck in development for an eternity.

Having an understanding of the factors that need to be considered is important, even on the IDEAS forum. Especially here, since it allows others to toss in their input which may help shape where it goes when it actually gets out of the forums and into the game-world.

My details are as detailed as they need be for an -idea-.

I did not say "make it scale" but "give it a base dmg and make the rest scale. Make either the base dmg or the scale dmg reducable by armour, or both, or none depending on the attack". I always figured that the base -number- and the scale -number- would be different between every attack since they all have a different damage output.

Obviously, the significance of health will be lessened depending on the actual numbers. However, -that- is a detail that other people can get headaches arguing about. Imo, high health people will argue for smaller scaling while low health people will argue the opposite. In other words: A -very- good reason for me not to delve into this subject!

PS: My dl is finished. Despite your evil plots it is now anime-watch-time, Xenthos, and there's nothing you can do to keep me from it!

Just to make things clear, I agree with the general idea of this, but not the numbers you are putting up shadow. Scaling should not be as high as you are suggesting, but only slightly higher than it is doing now. High health should still be significant.

Any demigod who complains about having less than 6k health is not trying hard enough. Let's take base faeling at 9 constitution for example. You get two bonus as a demigod, which is 11. Your base health is therefore (11x3+6)x100+300. That is 4200 health. It's easy to get +3 to cons, if not +4. Let's be conservative and go with +3. That is another 900 health, bringing you up to 5100. Life karmic - 5610. Now, most demigods have a Life rune of some sort: that is how most demigods warriors have so much more health. Again, being conversative, 5%. That now becomes 5890. That is very near 6k health already. Add Tosha blessings and everything else, and you'd be well over 6k. And remember, this is for base faeling, who are supposed to be squishy but fast.

Do you mean "significant"? Insignificant seems out of place with the rest of the wording here.

Xenthos, Xenthos, Xenthos. Just because you have to be a bloom under the shade, it doesn't mean you have to try to ruin my posts like that.

7k health isn't entirely unreasonable. I wouldn't call it average, but why would you want any above-average health to be insignificant? I could probably run and hit 7k at 82.

I've got the 10% health arti, but this is me otherwise unbuffed:
5481h, 4606m, 4072e, 10p, 20245en, 19030w elrx<>-

EDIT: And there's the stats with me actually putting myself at full!
EDITEDIT: And that's level 81. Sorry.

If damage is meant to be meaningful to high health players, low health players are simply screwed. If not, high health players are unkillable by damage. With the huge health ranges we have in Lusternia, those seem to be the only two options. You guys just seem to be arguing over whether or not damage should mean anything.

I forget who posted the inspiration for this, and this isn't the original idea, but anyways:

Nerf everyone's damage. Nerf it to hell. Then nerf healing and make it an unscaled amount. Constitution changes from basic survivability to how many mistakes you can afford to make.

Rika:

Half of my point is that I am NOT talking about demigods and ascendants, but rather that everyone who cannot afford such high health (that you either gain at level 100 or by being a warrior with surge) is.... screwed.

EDIT: Maybe I should start making a list in how many ways a topic can be mis-read and mis-interpreted, and then seperate which are accidental and where people cannot or do not want to read properly.

If this were a romantic comedy, shadow and Xenthos would be smooching by now.

Aesyra is married already!

And irl, I'd never follow a guy to his crow nest! Mommy told me not to!

Well, I do need more carrion...