Well, expecting people to police themselves is pretty much out of the question. If it's there, people will use it, and if it's not against the rules, people will abuse it. That whole "playing to win" thing again I guess.

That directed at me? If so, I've been playing since 4-5 hours after it opened, and I remember that bitching But that problem has been gone for ages, and now a single exit is a huge disadvantage that I'm certain I've whined about before and gave up on

You forgot to mention that if its against the rules and not mechanically impossible, people will abuse it

Noted a lot of interesting things, really. I love meetings like this, and I love reading over what happened. It gives a semblance of progress being made on the things that players in Lusternia appreciate and could do without. My only comment being that some of the player ideas should really be given more thought, instead of being brushed aside without explanation. It's apparent through reactions that time spent in the havens will sometimes distance old-hardcore-players from what's going on in the game, despite observations, so it's important that they realize this and take into account that the ideas being given are being given by people who are actively dealing with the topic at hand. As such... you'd be surprised how insightful they can be. Granted, also, that sometimes Gods (Obviously) are aware of various mechanics or upcoming events that will change things which we players are not privvy to. While some of those can't be discussed openly, the ones that can should be, so that people have more of a reason in why their idea will never be implemented instead of that blunt, 'No. It won't solve the problem.'


The tag-along to this being that I clearly <3 every last one of you Divine up there. It's just my casual two-cents.

Yes, that's sort of my point. You missed the subtlety there of why I thought it was kind of odd that someone would mention "didn't they beg for it" when the "they" was nearly 4 RL years ago under different circumstances.

I'm also interested in whether or not a log of the Glomdoring-centric meeting was made. Anyone?

Edit: Oops. Wrong button.

I was late, then showed up for about 30-40 minutes and then left when Iashe left and I realized that this meeting was pretty much useless and not going to change anything.

Again, in fairness, those issues were within the scope of the meeting guidelines. The stated purpose of the meeting was not limited to issues impacting IRE, Inc. No reason not to accept the stated reason he was there:
Iashe says, "Ok, so I am here mainly for any IRE specific questions."
Iashe says, "Mainly this means I get asked very little."
Iashe says, "However, I like to sit in on these to looks for trends that pop up
across all the games."

I am sure it was frustrating to the players trying to explain the situation as from the log it seems the staff would almost get it, then not. In hindsight it would have been perhaps better to have asked that the Planar stuff be tabled for another meeting. Still, it should be said that neither side suggested this.

I think many people here have things backwards, issues which do not require discussion and explanation really do not require people to meet. It is the issues where there is some fundamental misunderstanding between attendees in which meeting can be an asset.


One could also say that the current set up overly favors raiders. That, assuming it should be, would certainly be something which could be addressed by mechanics.

nailed it in 1

Maybe. But they probably wouldn't have gone for another meeting - this is an IRE-required one, not one suggested by Estarra, right? This one might've been hard enough to make time for as it is.

True dat.

If I didn't have gold from astral when I started to trans skills I would likely have given up. If I didn't have other means of making credits IG later on I would equally have changed to another game. However, many many many people aren't that fortunate. I pretty much lucked out on credits and time.

If I compare what skills here are needed just to participate decently in combat compared to say... Aetolia.. then Lusternia has a -way- higher entry level. In aeto I can be decent with just guild skills (sure I'll be missing some stuff depending on my class, but I'll be fine in medicore combat generally). In Lusternia, guild skills have so many useless stuff in it in addition to them alone not getting you ANYWHERE at all. It's pretty sad, and crazy.

According to a certain divine, who shall remain nameless, my comment about Aletheus was in bad taste. Therefore, let me explain.

IMHO, Aletheus should not have been there. Nejii, Thoros, Xiel, possibly Aison, yes. And there were many others. These are a few people who are not only seasoned veterans, but someone know their way around. They have seen things from different points of view, and are able to not only carry on a reasonable conversation about skills, they are willing to accept some compromise about such.

Aletheus, however, is relatively knew to Lusternia. He showed up, bought a bunch of credits, mking Pharamon VERY happy, and after a bit, was elected Leader of Celest. This neither makes him seasoned, nor gives him any real credability, so to speak. Yes, I know he is a decent warrior. Celest has MANY decent warriors. But the whole time he was there, he was kowtowing to people, and most of his conversation was how Magnagora was just to durned OP to exist.

I can still remember when the Necromentate fell. When Celest raided about once an hour, kept earth clear, for DAYS irl. It happens.

As Murphy would say, Suck it up, Princess. It happens.

Now this was in in way intended as an attack on Aletheus, nor was the last one, really. It was merely a comment on how Aletheus took the time that Estarra and Co. graciously extended to him and the people he appointed, and used it to complain about being raided.

I think there is the dual problem of steep entry requirements along with retention of players who have met those requirements. The seemingly excessive raiding is just a byproduct of population issues. i.e. The fighters of Celest didn't stop playing because Celest was getting raided. The fighters of Celest stopped playing because they were bored and then it became much easier for Celest to be excessively raided.

The high entry requirements for fighters just makes it that much more difficult to easily replace those who are experienced and stop playing. On top of the skills themselves, the complexity of the combat pretty much demands a system. It's not that people don't want to get better at fighting. It's just extremely hard to.

So you have a combination of the experienced players who have been very active all of a sudden dropping off the face of the earth along with no newer players to easily step into their shoes making for a combat population imbalance. Whichever org(s) is currently the aggressor will eventually get bored and their more experienced players will stop playing as much or at all and then they become the underdogs.

I don't know that it's something that should be fixed or looked into. People who have access to the active population numbers would be better able to tell if it needs addressing. But from a basic business sense getting new customers is important. Keeping them once you have them is equally, if not more, important.

I do have one, however I've had a very strong headache since it's been made and homework/classes to boot. While I'm in Richmond Hill I plan to edit it and post it, if no one can wait for that, I know I've sent it to Ryleth and Valarien at their requests, uneditted.

Is ok, I sent it to Astraea last night. I cleaned it up a little then I thought "this is taking to long" and sent it to her half cleaned up.

Yup.

Catarin didn't mention it, probably because its obvious but I'll state it anyway. Players should expect that at some point their org will be pounded into the ground. Their top tier fighters are people, and at some point people find something else to do with their time other than gaming. Especially once they are top tier and have exhausted the interesting things Lusternia has to offer.



Thats just life. You can't fix life.

The solution for the demoralization of raiding can either come from allowing defenders to conglut (mitigate the cause of demoralization, suggested by Desitrus if memory serves), or lessen the cost of combat as discussed above.




Ok. Sure. I'm doing a bit of Monday Night quarterbacking here. (F you Al Davis). However I would have hoped that the whole time broader issues were addressed. And fixed.