Those are nice. Very nice.



First and foremost. Psymet isn't bad. There is no "steep cost" for taking it. The DMP is amazing. It has tons to offer. Is it as PK friendly as acro? No, but it's not horrible. Not at all.

You compared it to stealth, not me. I merely expanded upon the argument. You can take acro instead of psymet if the double balance is indeed the issue, and saying "that's not fair, you have rush" really doesn't change the fact that you can get hyperactive. In fact, claiming harmony is unbalanced because stealth has rush is entirely beside the point, and misleading. If you want psymet SO BADLY, then you have to deal with no double balance. If stealth users, on the other hand, are dead set on psymet, we don't get somersault. Harmony users still have super tumble. Now, I know a large part of the argument is that you can't use them all at the same time. Adding a bit more flexibility is totally something I could get on board with. Reducing the number of mantras required for some of the skills would be beneficial, as well as allowing harmony users to fluidly switch between mantras with a very small eq cost. ( i dunno how long the eq cost is atm) It also needs to be stated, and understood that players need to be flexible and learn to adapt. Having the same mantras up all the time and complaing you don't have enough as opposed to picking and choosing what will be more beneficial at certain times just won't cut it. (Which has kind of been hinted at from harmony users for a long time). No, you can't use anything with 1p barrier. You are invincible for 1 power. So unfair, I know. You are critically downplaying some very powerful skills. Boost to weapon stats, for instance. Harmony users can a +10 total to speed, which is huge for a monk. Half paralysis time. Super kether. The problem isn't the skills. The problem is the flexibility. Allow easy switching between mantras and I think you'll be good to go.



I knew the "They disagree with us, they are obviously biased" post was coming. Forget that I agree'd that it needed some help, I'm just biased. It fits in with secret my anti Seren agenda.

Again, it's not strictly about psymet. It's about what you give up by taking psymet. Stealth users don't give up as much as harmony users in taking the skillset, because of rushing. Rushing and hyper are very good abilites. It gives stealth users more flexibility because they have hyper-lite inherently, wheras to get that sort of effect, harmony users must take acro.



Because of the way harmony/stealth is divided among cities and communes, and the way they are mutually exclusive to one another, we would be foolhardy in the extreme to discuss one without figuring the other into the equation in a comparitive manner. It is ultimately inherent to the discussion, even moreso that they are both secondaries of the same archetype, and thus would effect the common, shared elements of the archetype.

Leave alone that you responded to commentary on rushing, and then, apparently, feel that since you did not initially bring it up, that this some how serves as a dampener on any response to your own comments? Ultimately, it doesn't matter at all who brings up a topic. It was brought up at some point, and, Lo, a discussion sprang forth.

Three second eq standard.
A little over two for switching two.
One and a half for switching just one.

well, I feel I'm giving up alot because I didn't pick psymet can stealth get a boost?

I gave you a perfect example of how stealth users give up something that harmony monks do not. You inisist on harping on rushing instead of looking at the whole picture. It's a diversionary tactic. You are hammering on this rush/hyperactive point, dismissing everything else as useless and then demanding drastic changes. You are, in essence, implying rush/hyperactive is a requirement for monks, and harmony users get the short end of the stick because they either have it with acro, or they don't with psymet. It is not, however, required. It really won't be required when the monk overhaul goes in.

The rest, I'll leave alone. That path won't lead anywhere productive, nor is it entirely correct.



Oh, those are fine. 3 seconds is not bad at all. Drop your mantras, wait three seconds, 1 power barrier. Insta tumble. etc. Start fighting again, throw up something else. To compare, Guardians use well over three seconds to scourge/invest during a fight.

The number of mantras for some skills could still be reduced.

Not going into the stealth argument... however, you referenced an -active- skill there, one that is a special effect atop of that. The majority of harmony skills are passive "effects". If I have to switch all the time then sip bonus, fear immunity, or DMP won't help me -at all-. And that is what makes harmony so unfeasible (among other things).

You don't switch "all the time." You pick and choose based on the situation. Fear immunity and DMP is never useless. Seriously, if you harmony users are wanting real changes, you are going to have to come up with actual arguments instead of "everything sucks" or "Stealth has rush."

Turning some mantras into defs so that they don't use your three mantra spots might be one solution to the problem. Something like psymet gliding/energycontainment/ironskin. The DMP for instance.

Fear immunity is useless because katas, at this point, put you perma-offbalance which means fear doesn't even do anything. Also, with that up, as of right now, we can't regenerate health, useless.

The DMP is less than bracing, and we have to give something else up to do it, kinda useful, but not as useful as it should be for something that means I have to give something else up to have it.

I'll put up what I know about the rest of Harmony's skills.

Ooshmun
Sense those who move under the shroud of deceit.
Pretty useful in one on one fights if the person is cloaked and runs alot. I used to use it all the time.
Lumuti
Let your confidence grow with each breath you take.
Already talked about that...
Chuphet
Stand still and strong against attempts to move you.
Potential useful, but is it powerful enough to sacrifice whatever I could have put in it's place?
Ooshphet
Let your feet travel like the fastest winds.
Nothing wrong with extra movement speed sometimes.
Krakuti
Burst the inflated egos of those who deserve it.
Useful in non-peaced revolts. Like an anti-chant.
Anguti
Expand your ability to influence and debate others.
I love you, Anguti. You make me an insanely hard-hitting debater.
Lumphet
Let healing energies course through your body.
Faster sip bonus, very nice. One of the best ones to use.
Krakmun
Drain the minds of those who seek to harm.
Mana attack? Not very useful in any sense of the word.
Angphet
Strengthen your body against harm.
Already talked about Mr. DMP.
Regeneration
Let your mantra vibrate through body, mind and heart.
Very useful. Probably the best skill I have in Harmony.
Akhooshlumang
None will be able to see your inner being.
Do you like to piss off telepaths and guardians? Well here is the skill for you...
Lummun
Your mind has mastery over your body.
It's pretty nice. I will admit that.
Akhlum
Surround yourself with a frosty chill.
Basically useless. Even when I'm just using mactans with this, it never does anything, it seems. Even as a Celestian. The effects needed for it are decent, though.
Chuuti
Wrap yourself in the strength of the peaceful heart.
Stopping katas sometimes? Works for me!
Akhchukrakoosh
Let karma take care of its own.
Not that big of a damage difference, I think. I'll need to look at it more, maybe steal me someone to test with.
Krakphet
Your strikes will be filled with inner passions.
Hardly a damage boost. I'll see how it looks with akhcrukakoosh.
Akhkrak
Let the fire within burn away that which ails you.
Okay, in and of itself, it's VERY nice. But, you need three fire mantras for it, so... meh.
Angmun
Protect the mind against harm.
How common is psychic damage that you'd give up another defense for it?
Akhang
Metal responds favorably to your touch.
+5, needs all metal. Could be useful if kata speed was more linear and less hyperbolic. Though, with kephera bonus, this, +15 runes, max speed weapons, and the champion artie, I may be able to outpace a kick. Who knows? Also, need the three metal mantras which is 10 DMP to cutting, blunt, and psychic, as well as harder hitting debating...
Chumun
Gird your mind against throughts that confuse.
I would put this under a telepath killer, probably go well with angmun and lummun.
Akhchu
Control that which attempts to bind you.
Passive web-dodging? I don't have it so often does it fire?
Akhlumangchu
Call upon the protection of the spirit within.
Prismatic is nice, nothing wrong with that.
Ooshuti
Pierce the illusions that seek to trick you.
Krokani, trans arts, ooshuti. You basically have immunity to illusions. Pretty nice.
Akhoosh
Feel the wind empower and move you.
Insta tumble, but I need the three wind mantras for it. So, move faster, illusion spotting, and seeing people leave.
Akhlumooshchu
Banish the evil spirits that plague you.
Insane damage against out of phase people? I'll show those Dreamweavers what for...
Akhangooshkrak
Even death plays a part in the harmony of existence
Quite possibly one of the most worthless instakills of all time.



SOOOOOO. I'm going to go test those two damage ones.

Also, alot of Harmony's skills are pretty decent, and some are downright amazing. But, the problem is sacrificing useful skills for one that is very useful like Akoosh.

Alright, did the damage testing, and I found two bugged skills. Fun.

See? This is who you need working on the envoy report. Understands the problem. Harmony itself is not full of crap skills, the mechanics behind how harmony mantras work are the problem. That and the instakill. Your instakill is kind of bad.

yes even though most of them came out with a rather positive comment. Which leads me to say whats wrong? two or three skills aren't super good?

Gosh Krin, keep up the the discussion. Mantras are too rigid. While a lot of skills are useful, you can't use a lot of the useful ones because you are using other useful ones. Unlike stealth where you get all of it at once, or psymet where some don't lock channels but you still get the benefit. Basically they have a lot of good skills, they just can't use them because of the limited mantra mechanic.

For reference: with the Kephera racial bonus, +15 runes, and the Sash bonus, your weapon attacks will outpace your kick. Kaervas had this.

Oh wow, so of those names are as annoying as crowtongue .

Alteast they make some sense

You're not listening are you? I wonder if you just don't want to or if you don't to because "omfg no don't change harmony. I don't have the skillset thus it is already way too OP!"

Ahem.

Anyway, it's not like you say or think. It especially doesn't work that way. For examples read um.. this thread. Many other posts scattered across the forums. Yada.

PS: I'll give you a hint. DMP and fear immunity -could- be useful but the current system on how harmony and mantras work -makes- it useless.