So, Gregori meets with Lisaera to discuss the future possibility of a Cult.. He has a few people who have said they would join and such and so he wanted to find out what Lisaera requires of him.


Shock! Cults can only be made from members that are in the same Order as the Cult Leader!


Please change this, as it makes cults completely pointless for the following reasons:

1. It causes cult leaders to compete with their own god(dess) in their own Order.
2. It causes cult leaders in the same Order to have to compete within the Order for cult members.
3. It causes a Cult to be nothing more than a mini-me of the Divine the Cult is based in.
4. It does not allow for new concepts to emerge i.e Gregori forming a cult based around the teaching of Lisaera, but with a more material aspect to them instead of ethereal. Instead he is pretty much stuck with preaching exactly what Lisaera teaches to the exact same people as Lisaera teaches.


If this is the way cults are meant to be, remove cult from ascendancy and put it where it belongs. On Avatars.

Um.

Welcome to the "What are Cults supposed to be about" club, I guess?

Yeah pretty much, the concept of cults in Ascendance is pretty hopeless.

I was kind of hoping that if I ever sucker a god into giving me a cult, I can at least induct people who think similarly ICly in a bigger potential pool, like say, outside the Order.

Yeah... cults aren't nearly as cool as they should be.

But, that said, couldn't you do number 4 anyway? Surely within the Order you could find others who might be interested in exploring the teachings of the God in a slightly different way and all.

... but you can already do that in the Order itself. Most Orders (at least, all the ones I have any experience with) have different "paths" for certain preferences. Each with a slightly different view, though the same fundamental base.

How does a Cult really enhance that, except to say "This one path is better than all the others, because it has a Cult leader"?

Incidentally, yes, I'd be totally cool with Cults and Orders being totally divorced

I wouldn't mind having to pay for everything myself, no cost to a divine at all.

This is what was suggested to begin with, and what we thought we'd be getting, actually.

Would be nice if it went back to that.

Do cults give you combat bonuses?

I want to be in your cult Gregori.

Nope.

Yeah. QFT.

It would be nice if you got something other, seeing as cult leaders probably won't get the ability to fave.

Also in case you guys didn't know, Avatar is less than half (probably even less than a fourth) the cost of a Cult and it's about 200% more useful, since you get a healing aura, passive damage to order enemies, and the power to soulrezz members.

If Cults are designed solely for RP, it'd make sense to make said RP try and involve as many people as possible, as opposed to a percent within a percent within a percent of the population.

Yeah. Avatar has major combat benefits (as listed here), Cult is almost all roleplay stuff... and cult requires way more essence, as well as a million power and a huge amount of hunting to be able to even use the RP powers.

As well as having monthly essence costs for everyone in the Cult, with no such limit on Avatars. With no way for your cultists to actually add to your essence (just the "cult pool," which is required for cult powers).

Yup

If cults are not divorced from Orders, then it should be viewed as the Order is the Vatican, the god is the pope, and you (the cult leader) are the countryside preacher with your little one room church.

The potential for Orders to expand is not there at all when you are stuck having to run a cult with a bunch of people who already worship the god you are culted with.

I still think the original concept was the best path for this. :/

Cult is separate from Order-- if you make a Cult, you cannot be in an Order (and, as such, cannot have Avatar powers). Instead, you get some RP powers, the ability to form something for other mortals (though it would be nice if they could choose to be in your Cult and in an Order), and maybe some other unique powers from their cultists. Nowhere near on the level of the Avatar powers (those things are insane for their cost), but... something. For the huge investment that is a Cult. A way for your cultists to bring you essence, more nifty little Cult-oriented abilities... SOMETHING.

The whole concept is just... meh.

I like my Order. I want a cult too though. I think it'd be fine if we could just have members who weren't in the Order as well.

Being able to be an Avatar as well as running a cult limits a number of options for tweaking, however.

Unless they just make Ascendants unable to be Avatars (which I guess would give Demigods the "reason to be" that Rika's been clamouring for).

And that would be such a stupid 'fix'.