Mine would be about the holy church of lolcatz.

Cults need to be tied to a god or goddess. Period. You aren't an Elder God, you are a glorified demi. You aren't supposed to have free reign over what kind of cult you want. It's perfectly fine that you, as an ascendant must be attached and there for answer to a specific god concerning what kind of cult you have.

I repeat, allowing Ascendants to go all willy nilly with no ties to a God or Goddess, and in essence start their own Order is not going to happen because, thankfully, the Admin understand why that would be a BAD IDEA.

I view cults as particular aspects of the Order they are a part of. For instance, if I were ascendant, I would make a cult of Conflict built around Fain's tenet of conflict, but expand upon it and accept members that are particularly geared towards conflict as opposed to greed or hatred. They would answer to me, but they would also answer to Fain. The Cult would have similiarities to Fain's Order so that I could not claim to be an entirely seperate entity, but it would be slightly different so as to not be Fain's Order. Maybe the Admin didn't want huge cult followings for a player because that would take away from Gods, and really, we have enough ego issues in Lusternia as it is.

You are in no way diluting the god pool. Giving people more options without drastically changing anything is not a bad thing. Cults are for RP flavour and a less utility. You get interaction the the leader since the leader is a player and not an Admin, but you don't get things line shrine powers. You do get cult portals though (which I think is nifty).

Can you imagine the outcry if I stepped into Acknor during a village revolt and slaughtered every Magnagoran enemy wholesale? The Vernal Ascendance concept is completely different.

All I really have to say is... Sojiro and I had the essence to make cults RL months ago. We decided not to, for various reasons-- all of them boiling down to the fact that it's just not worth the hassle of trying to fit together the pieces. I kept on learning Ascendance with my extra essence, and now... well, I'm just sitting on the little I have left because there's no real point in gathering/using any more.

The only thing that has changed in that time is that more people have achieved the ability to create a Cult, and each and every one has decided not to (Soll was the first one to learn the skill, though he disappeared for a long while). For the same reasons that we decided, for different reasons, it doesn't really matter. What matters is that something was coded to bring "more" to Lusternia, and so far has failed to achieve that despite being available for so long simply due to the limitations imposed within the mechanical structure. So many negatives, so many restrictions...

If it was just one person objecting, you'd be right to say, "Well, that's your choice." When it's reaching the number we've got now, it's time to rethink your position a bit. It's more than just general player stubbornness. You've got people who generally love to dive right into new stuff (like Sarrasri) saying that there are issues. There really are.

Something has to give, here. :/

This quotation doesn't support your argument at all!

This is the old blue print for vernal gods: the one where players would be chosen to become RP Gods with full God powers, but no administrative responsibility. Of course it would be more about roleplay than combat! Necessarily. Can you imagine the outcry if I stepped into Acknor during a village revolt and slaughtered every Magnagoran enemy wholesale? The Vernal Ascendance concept is completely different.

It's not because the middle ground wasn't taken, it's because there was no middle ground. Either you allow a player to become a god with all that entails, or you keep a player as a player but with quasi-godly buffs.

Vernal Gods won't be chosen by us at all really, Amaru. It will be a city decision more than anything, after all it is your power.

Sure, I'm making one. I am just lax on bashing up 10m essence.

Edit: And to boot, neither of you had an active deity for how long? Shuyin wasn't even in an order until Charune's return, IIRC.

I will take the stance that Fain takes, in that there is really no middle ground. You either get god powers and do nothing but RP or you don't and can have a mixture of RP stuff with combat stuff.

Gregori is asking to have cults, while still tied to a Divine, include people not of the Order. Then, I must ask, why should any Divine, with IC intentions in mind, want to give up their essence so you can have a cult for people who don't even want to join their Order? You are supposed to be representing them, and by doing so, converting people to your chosen religion. If you have developed an idea what sort of cult you want and request for one, are you not really asking the Divine for confirmation of what they want you to teach? How is that any different from me asking Maylea to set up a new path for people to follow?

Also, let's say the admin do decide to change Ascendance to be more RP/cult friendly. What are suggestions for what could be included? I bet you can not suggest anything that has absolutely no use in combat that would justify the essence needed to form a cult.

I'd make a cult in a heartbeat. Yes, it'd be difficult to "fit all the pieces together" but why is that a bad thing? It's a big deal, put in the work for it. (bashing essence is not "work" IMO)

I'd have a cult in Fain's Order that was dedicated to Vengeance. It wouldn't be big (hell, I might be the only one in it) but it'd take from Fain's teachings about subtelty and hatred and how to focus that on your enemies and people that have betrayed you.

I really just don't buy "it's broken because no one does it" as an argument, esepcially considering Xenthos just admitted that it was too much work. I'd counter with "no one has tried it. You haven't put in the effort, gotten your hands dirty, and figured out what works and what doesn't."

Like most things in Lusternia, it could probably use some work, but this whole "cults suck, the world is ending" over dramatization is too much.

I'd make a cult right now, actually. I just got to 10 mil essence last night though. All I'm waiting for is for Charune to make me all cultified, tbh. I figure he's going to wait until I have a bit more than 10 mil so it's not all poof gone after making one so I'm just working on a buffer. I'll live if I can't have people from outside the Order, but I'd have preferred to be able to draw on all aspects of Sarra's rp to help the cult along.

I have not once complained about the skills, I think the cult skills are perfectly fine and no more need to be added. If you want Maylea to set up a new path in the Order, you don't need a cult. You need initiative.

Bringing people to the Order by expanding outside the Order is representing them. You are slowly converting them to your religion, that is the point of a Cult. Being nothing more than a buff-bot in an Order just reinforces the "Ascendant is about combat" theme, but at this point I guess I should not expect more than that.

I believe I said that there are too many limitations and restrictions, not that it's too much work.

After you've bashed up 120,000,000 essence for Ascendance, the piddly amount for a Cult doesn't really make much difference.

All I really have to say is... Sojiro and I had the essence to make cults RL months ago. We decided not to, for various reasons-- all of them boiling down to the fact that it's just not worth the hassle of trying to fit together the pieces.

Maybe Cults are meant to eventually replace Paths?

While an interesting concept, sadly you are stuck with the "you can only have a cult if all my path leaders agree that you can have a cult. Keeping in mind that you will be replacing one of them." issue.

But, I do agree with that concept of Cults. It is one I thought about and pondered. It is just never going to fly in a situation where you are replacing a leader and you need their permission in the first place, especially when the leader is extremely fond of being the leader.

Wait... you need someone's permission, other than the God who's Order you're in??

I personally do yes. It is one of my requirements "get permission from my 3 path heads."

Each god has the right to decide their own requirements, but to my knowledge I am the only one who has to get a unanimous popularity vote.