Krackenor2008-11-05 22:49:12
Tough luck. You're stuck with him for four years. This sort of conversation happens after every election.
"The country is going to collapse under!"
" will be the worst president ever!"
"I can't believe that over half the nation was stupid enough to vote for! They must be absolute morons!"
Take a look around. We're not British yet, or Japanese, or Korean. Country's still standing. If every president was the worst one ever, we have never done anything right. As for the 'people are stupid' comment...refer to my previous post. Ah hell, I know none of you will, so I'll give you the gist...
PEOPLE VOTE IN THEIR BEST INTERESTS. IT DOES NOT MAKE THEM INHERENTLY STUPID IF THEY DISAGREE WITH YOU.
The election is over, Obama will be president. Some people will benefit more than others, that's the way its always been. Hell, some people benefitted under Nazi Germany, and Soviet Russia too, but that doesn't mean jack in the long term.
"The country is going to collapse under
"
"I can't believe that over half the nation was stupid enough to vote for
Take a look around. We're not British yet, or Japanese, or Korean. Country's still standing. If every president was the worst one ever, we have never done anything right. As for the 'people are stupid' comment...refer to my previous post. Ah hell, I know none of you will, so I'll give you the gist...
PEOPLE VOTE IN THEIR BEST INTERESTS. IT DOES NOT MAKE THEM INHERENTLY STUPID IF THEY DISAGREE WITH YOU.
The election is over, Obama will be president. Some people will benefit more than others, that's the way its always been. Hell, some people benefitted under Nazi Germany, and Soviet Russia too, but that doesn't mean jack in the long term.
Furien2008-11-05 23:04:02
You take your filthy logic out of this conversation.
That said, Prop 8 really making me feel like crap.
That said, Prop 8 really making me feel like crap.
Yrael2008-11-05 23:06:07
Don't worry, you foul, godless thing. I'm sure in a hellbound country such as Mexico or Massachusetts you'll be allowed to enter into your filthy union of evil.
Myndaen2008-11-05 23:37:15
QUOTE(Furien @ Nov 5 2008, 03:04 PM) 579621
You take your filthy logic out of this conversation.
That said, Prop 8 really making me feel like crap.
That said, Prop 8 really making me feel like crap.
It's not over yet. We're not gunna just let this slide, obviously.
Furthermore, now there are many people actively trying to get the LDS's tax exempt status removed, so .
Acrune2008-11-05 23:37:57
QUOTE(Yrael @ Nov 5 2008, 05:45 PM) 579615
I'm going to regret feeding the troll, but..
Can you provide me with links to source information for the fact that it was all the democrats fault?
(There. Managed to make it sound like an attack. Oh god, I'm smooth.)
Can you provide me with links to source information for the fact that it was all the democrats fault?
(There. Managed to make it sound like an attack. Oh god, I'm smooth.)
Yrael's attacking me! I demand a banning!
*cough*
Anyways, the requested info:
http://www.federalistjournal.com/fedblog/?p=3077
This one looks relevant, but its long and I don't feel like reading it all *cough*: http://www.cc.org/node/815
http://www.halfsigma.com/2008/09/smoking-g...omments/page/2/
http://antiprotester.blogspot.com/2008/09/...f-mortgage.html
http://www.snopes.com/politics/business/easescredit.asp
http://www.nationaljournal.com/njmagazine/...081018_3384.php
Yrael2008-11-06 00:24:34
QUOTE(Acrune @ Nov 6 2008, 10:37 AM) 579628
Yrael's attacking me! I demand a banning!
*cough*
Anyways, the requested info:
http://www.federalistjournal.com/fedblog/?p=3077
This one looks relevant, but its long and I don't feel like reading it all *cough*: http://www.cc.org/node/815
http://www.halfsigma.com/2008/09/smoking-g...omments/page/2/
http://antiprotester.blogspot.com/2008/09/...f-mortgage.html
http://www.snopes.com/politics/business/easescredit.asp
http://www.nationaljournal.com/njmagazine/...081018_3384.php
*cough*
Anyways, the requested info:
http://www.federalistjournal.com/fedblog/?p=3077
This one looks relevant, but its long and I don't feel like reading it all *cough*: http://www.cc.org/node/815
http://www.halfsigma.com/2008/09/smoking-g...omments/page/2/
http://antiprotester.blogspot.com/2008/09/...f-mortgage.html
http://www.snopes.com/politics/business/easescredit.asp
http://www.nationaljournal.com/njmagazine/...081018_3384.php
Remember the unofficial rule of the Lusternia forums:
It's only an attack/offence/crime against the great mod god/ if the mod in question doesn't like the poster.
Acrune2008-11-06 00:26:16
QUOTE(Yrael @ Nov 5 2008, 07:24 PM) 579631
Remember the unofficial rule of the Lusternia forums:
It's only an attack/offence/crime against the great mod god/ if the mod in question doesn't like the poster.
It's only an attack/offence/crime against the great mod god/ if the mod in question doesn't like the poster.
Ha, to be honest, I wouldn't have called it an attack if you didn't say that it was. Amusingly enough, you've been one of the more reasonable people I've talked to on this subject. Ironic, huh?
Yrael2008-11-06 00:31:41
I wasn't having a bitchfit over it. I was just pointing something out from my big list of unofficial forum rules, which I keep in a text file.
For example. one of the prime ones on Aetolia forums is that you have to be as popular as the prom queen to disagree with a female as pretty as you, wether male or female.
On 4chan, being a "namefag" is the rough equivalent of walking down the streets of North Korea screaming "UP YOURS, KIM. DEMOCRACY IS NON NEGOTIABLE." while wearing a neon sign saying "American spy."
The list goes on.
For example. one of the prime ones on Aetolia forums is that you have to be as popular as the prom queen to disagree with a female as pretty as you, wether male or female.
On 4chan, being a "namefag" is the rough equivalent of walking down the streets of North Korea screaming "UP YOURS, KIM. DEMOCRACY IS NON NEGOTIABLE." while wearing a neon sign saying "American spy."
The list goes on.
Daganev2008-11-06 00:53:33
QUOTE(Furien @ Nov 5 2008, 03:04 PM) 579621
You take your filthy logic out of this conversation.
That said, Prop 8 really making me feel like crap.
That said, Prop 8 really making me feel like crap.
Why? You can still get a civil union if you so wish. It just won't have the same label.
QUOTE
A California domestic partnership is a legal relationship available to same-sex couples, and to certain opposite-sex couples in which at least one party is at least 62 years of age. It affords the couple virtually all of the same substantive legal benefits and privileges, and imposes upon the couple virtually all of the same legal obligations and duties, that California law affords to and imposes upon a married couple.Enacted in 1999, the domestic partnership registry was the first of its kind in the United States created by a legislature without court intervention. Initially, domestic partnerships enjoyed very few privileges—principally just hospital-visitation rights. The legislature has since expanded the scope of California domestic partnerships to afford many of the rights and responsibilities common to marriage. As such, it is now difficult to distinguish California domestic partnerships from civil unions offered in a handful of other states.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestic_part...p_in_California
QUOTE
Scope
As of 2007, California affords domestic partnerships all of the same rights and responsibilities as marriages under state law (Cal. Fam. Code §297.5). Among these:
Making health care decisions for each other in certain circumstances
Hospital and jail visitation rights that were previously reserved for family members related by blood, adoption or marriage to the sick, injured or incarcerated person.
Access to family health insurance plans (Cal. Ins. Code §10121.7)
Spousal insurance policies (auto, life, homeowners etc..), this applies to all forms of insurance through the California Insurance Equality Act (Cal. Ins. Code §381.5)
Sick care and similar family leave
Stepparent adoption procedures
Presumption that both members of the partnership are the parents of a child born into the partnership
Suing for wrongful death of a domestic partner
Rights involving wills, intestate succession, conservatorships and trusts
The same property tax provisions otherwise available only to married couples (Cal. R&T Code §62p)
Access to some survivor pension benefits
Supervision of the Superior Court of California over dissolution and nullity proceedings
The obligation to file state tax returns as a married couple (260k) commencing with the 2007 tax year (Cal R&T Code §18521d)
The right for either partner to take the other partner's surname after registration
Community property rights and responsibilities previously only available to married spouses
The right to request partner support (alimony) upon dissolution of the partnership (divorce)
The same parental rights and responsibilities granted to and imposed upon spouses in a marriage
As of 2007, California affords domestic partnerships all of the same rights and responsibilities as marriages under state law (Cal. Fam. Code §297.5). Among these:
Making health care decisions for each other in certain circumstances
Hospital and jail visitation rights that were previously reserved for family members related by blood, adoption or marriage to the sick, injured or incarcerated person.
Access to family health insurance plans (Cal. Ins. Code §10121.7)
Spousal insurance policies (auto, life, homeowners etc..), this applies to all forms of insurance through the California Insurance Equality Act (Cal. Ins. Code §381.5)
Sick care and similar family leave
Stepparent adoption procedures
Presumption that both members of the partnership are the parents of a child born into the partnership
Suing for wrongful death of a domestic partner
Rights involving wills, intestate succession, conservatorships and trusts
The same property tax provisions otherwise available only to married couples (Cal. R&T Code §62p)
Access to some survivor pension benefits
Supervision of the Superior Court of California over dissolution and nullity proceedings
The obligation to file state tax returns as a married couple (260k) commencing with the 2007 tax year (Cal R&T Code §18521d)
The right for either partner to take the other partner's surname after registration
Community property rights and responsibilities previously only available to married spouses
The right to request partner support (alimony) upon dissolution of the partnership (divorce)
The same parental rights and responsibilities granted to and imposed upon spouses in a marriage
Myndaen2008-11-06 00:59:41
QUOTE(daganev @ Nov 5 2008, 04:53 PM) 579643
Why? You can still get a civil union if you so wish. It just won't have the same label.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestic_part...p_in_California
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestic_part...p_in_California
I think it has something to do with "separate but equal is not equal", but don't quote me on that one.
Xenthos2008-11-06 01:02:22
QUOTE(Myndaen @ Nov 5 2008, 07:59 PM) 579644
I think it has something to do with "separate but equal is not equal", but don't quote me on that one.
Having access to the rundown fountain that has stuff growing in it is equal! We promise!
Myndaen2008-11-06 01:03:36
QUOTE(Xenthos @ Nov 5 2008, 05:02 PM) 579645
Having access to the rundown fountain that has stuff growing in it is equal! We promise!
It haz a flavor?
Xenthos2008-11-06 01:04:16
QUOTE(Myndaen @ Nov 5 2008, 08:03 PM) 579646
It haz a flavor?
And the stuff growing in it has to be good for your constitution...
... if you don't get sick, that is.
Desitrus2008-11-06 01:10:19
Better off campaigning that all marriages become Civil Unions, than trying to wrest a word from the bowels of tradition and Christianity. By tradition, I mean that plenty of people who aren't religious think marriage is 1m/1f.
Daganev2008-11-06 01:29:02
QUOTE(Myndaen @ Nov 5 2008, 04:59 PM) 579644
I think it has something to do with "separate but equal is not equal", but don't quote me on that one.
Except that in this case it is.
When you have two physical objects, that are separate, they can't be equal.
However, when you have two words, and those words are defined by laws, both terms can be equal. and in this case, they actually in fact are equal.
If you are concerned that the federal definition of marriage and the federal definitions of civil unions are different, then petition the federal government to treat civil unions the same as they treat marriages.
However, in California, and in california law (which prop 8 was about, it wasn't at all about federal law), Civil unions and marriages are 100% equal.
.
Xiel2008-11-06 01:56:27
QUOTE(daganev @ Nov 5 2008, 05:29 PM) 579654
However, in California, and in california law (which prop 8 was about, it wasn't at all about federal law), Civil unions and marriages are 100% equal.
Waiiiiiiiiiiit a minute.
-interjects with his political-noob questions-
So gay civil unions in the US have the option for the same perks that straight marriages get? I don't really even care what terminology is used, but what applies to straight couples legally are able to be applied to gay couples as well?
<--confused.
Rakor2008-11-06 01:56:32
I'm going to be completely honest with you, Daganev. From time to time you will make a post and I will have absolutely no idea what you are saying. None at all. It's like your brain is working totally differently.
Daganev2008-11-06 02:01:03
QUOTE(Xiel @ Nov 5 2008, 05:56 PM) 579659
Waiiiiiiiiiiit a minute.
-interjects with his political-noob questions-
So gay civil unions in the US have the option for the same perks that straight marriages get? I don't really even care what terminology is used, but what applies to straight couples legally are able to be applied to gay couples as well?
<--confused.
-interjects with his political-noob questions-
So gay civil unions in the US have the option for the same perks that straight marriages get? I don't really even care what terminology is used, but what applies to straight couples legally are able to be applied to gay couples as well?
<--confused.
yes. In California, that is currently the way it works.
Daganev2008-11-06 02:03:07
QUOTE(Rakor @ Nov 5 2008, 05:56 PM) 579660
I'm going to be completely honest with you, Daganev. From time to time you will make a post and I will have absolutely no idea what you are saying. None at all. It's like your brain is working totally differently.
ok...
the phrase, "separate but equal, is not equal" only applies to situations where there is some physical reality associated with it. As in, separate but equal bathrooms, or separate but equal schooling. You can't have two apples, which are separate apples, and say that they are exactly the same, because they aren't.
However, when you are talking about something like the difference between "Marriage" and "civil union", its is 100% possible for those two things to be exactly the same. In the case of California, it is exactly the same.
Xiel2008-11-06 02:03:55
-ponder-
So was proposition 8 just an argument over the use of the word marriage then?
So was proposition 8 just an argument over the use of the word marriage then?