Get out and VOTE

by Kaalak

Back to The Real World.

Moiraine2008-11-07 15:28:12
QUOTE(Desitrus @ Nov 7 2008, 03:15 PM) 580119
State-Sanctioned censor.gif -Buddies is the only cure for society's woes, clearly.


Desi for Prez. I totally agree.
Saran2008-11-07 15:41:35
QUOTE(Desitrus @ Nov 8 2008, 02:15 AM) 580119
Head. Desk. Head. Desk.

headdeskheaddeskheaddeskheaddeskheaddeskheaddeskheaddeskheaddesk

The reason the bible is used as a reason against applying the term "marriage" to same-sex unions is because it is a bloody religious ceremony. It's like you're saying you want someone to present you with Tomato Soup, but you don't want them to use Tomatoes in the process. Even if you did it with artifical non-tomato ingredients, anyone who ever had and loved tomato soup will just say "that's not tomato soup if it doesn't involve tomatoes", and they'd be right.

State-Sanctioned censor.gif -Buddies is the only cure for society's woes, clearly.


Desitrus, religion does not exclusively mean the bible. Surprisingly there are other religions in the world, Wikipedia listing 23 religious "supergroups" and some of them will actually perform their marriage ceremony for same-sex couples

Aside from that the word marriage is also now a legal term as long as it is used in legal documents.
Xavius2008-11-07 15:48:54
QUOTE(Celina @ Nov 7 2008, 02:59 AM) 580071
Religion is not a bad thing. PEOPLE can turn it into a bad thing. Humans have an extraordinary ability to turn good things into really bad things.

Christianity, or any religion for that matter, is not there for people to judge. You either are in it and understand why you believe it, or you don't and need to mind your own bussiness.

I came out of a Catholic seminary, sweetcheeks. I can tell you exactly why I was in it and exactly why I left it. I can tell you why, after leaving it, my opinion on the matter went from "maybe not a great idea" to "purge it from the censor.gif planet." Really and truly, Christianity (and practically all organized religions, plus a handful of unorganized ones) needs to be judged far, far more harshly, because it turns otherwise decent human beings into myopic bullies.

Let's use a more detached example to illustrate. A Muslim man's ability to integrate with Western civilization is inversely proportional to how devout he is. If you believe strongly enough in Sharia to put it into action and believe in the literal command to jihad, you're an atrocity. If you read the Qur'an and walk away from it with an emphasis on the internal jihad and the story about the prostitute that went to heaven and the holy man who went to hell still ringing in your ears, then you have a much better chance of being a positive influence in the world.
Aerotan2008-11-07 15:51:49
QUOTE(Saran @ Nov 7 2008, 11:41 AM) 580124
Aside from that the word marriage is also now a legal term as long as it is used in legal documents.

Which is the main issue. As is indicated by his posts to that effect.

Honestly, if I could be guaranteed the same rights and privileges as are currently granted to married couples and it wasn't called marriage, I'd be fine with that. Honestly, I don't give two censor.gifs what the rest of society does or does not believe regarding the status of my eventual spouse and I. I'll know we're married. He'll know we're married. Everyone that knows us well will know we're married, and anyone else, especially if they disapprove, can, with all due respect, go censor.gif themselves with a large iron censor.gif.
Unknown2008-11-07 15:55:09
Holy censor.gif, Southpark has an episode about the Election out already O_o

Aerotan2008-11-07 15:56:43
EDIT: Oops, I'm an idjit, delete please.
Unknown2008-11-07 16:55:24
QUOTE(Xavius @ Nov 7 2008, 03:48 PM) 580127
Really and truly, Christianity (and practically all organized religions, plus a handful of unorganized ones) needs to be judged far, far more harshly, because it turns otherwise decent human beings into myopic bullies.


Religion is the square. Ideology is the parallelogram.

Extreme liberal ideology is equally guilty of what is claimed as is extreme religious ideology. In both cases, mainstream, less indoctrinated individuals are not the problem.

The problem is idealists and ideology, which basically wind up being nothing but a shield against personal morality, and allow people to rationalize doing rather horrible things in the name of the "greater good" of thier ideals. For many such individuals, from the guy from the church yelling at people on campus in front of a picture of a dismembered human fetus, to the tunnel-vision environmentalist that's indirectly grinding an industry into the ground, it's hard to actually be upset with them, because they really believe that what they're doing is good.

Too bad all that ideology doesn't come equipped with the wisdom to pull the truths out of all it's crap.

It's also part of why I try to reject all ideology. Or at least keep things on a very basic level. Though, I'm aware that one could argue that in itself is a form of ideology, in the same sense you can argue that aethism is a religion. However, I've never had any deep qualms about being judge-penitent over things like that.
Moiraine2008-11-07 17:00:55
QUOTE(Xavius @ Nov 7 2008, 03:48 PM) 580127
Really and truly, Christianity (and practically all organized religions, plus a handful of unorganized ones) needs to be judged far, far more harshly, because it turns otherwise decent human beings into myopic bullies.


Ever consider that maybe religion is an excuse the myopic bullies use to do what comes natural?
Unknown2008-11-07 17:10:03
Am I the only one hearing (and getting irritated by) the rhetoric by some people that it's black people in California who're to blame for the passage of Prop 8? Personally, I find that ridiculous.

Also, it's amusing how suddenly some Republican figures are changing their views on Obama from "The most Liberal Senator (wooooo!)" to "Moderate Republican" and "Has many Conservative values at Heart". Perhaps that's just their way of reaching out and healing the rift.
Noola2008-11-07 17:10:42
QUOTE(Moiraine @ Nov 7 2008, 11:00 AM) 580138
Ever consider that maybe religion is an excuse the myopic bullies use to do what comes natural?



Probably true. Just like movies/videogames/music do not make people do murder and mayhem, they're just a convenient scapegoat.

Noola2008-11-07 17:12:11
QUOTE(Archer2 @ Nov 7 2008, 11:10 AM) 580139
Am I the only one hearing (and getting irritated by) the rhetoric by some people that it's black people in California who're to blame for the passage of Prop 8? Personally, I find that ridiculous.

Also, it's amusing how suddenly some Republican figures are changing their views on Obama from "The most Liberal Senator (wooooo!)" to "Moderate Republican" and "Has many Conservative values at Heart". Perhaps that's just their way of reaching out and healing the rift.



They're trying to make the situation ok in their own minds. I think the idea of Obama the Liberal being president is so upsetting their minds rebel, so they create Obama the Moderate Conservative in order to be able to function. laugh.gif
Unknown2008-11-07 17:15:30
QUOTE(Archer2 @ Nov 7 2008, 05:10 PM) 580139
Am I the only one hearing (and getting irritated by) the rhetoric by some people that it's black people in California who're to blame for the passage of Prop 8? Personally, I find that ridiculous.

Also, it's amusing how suddenly some Republican figures are changing their views on Obama from "The most Liberal Senator (wooooo!)" to "Moderate Republican" and "Has many Conservative values at Heart". Perhaps that's just their way of reaching out and healing the rift.



Would you rather they sit around and bitterly talk about how the election/nation was "stolen" from them? Because that was ever so productive.

Dennis Praeger (sp) has the right attitude. He basically says "I supported John McCain, but Obama is now/will be my president, so he has my respect and support as the president."
Tael2008-11-07 17:24:51
We all know the one true religion is the Church of the Flying Spahgetti Monster

All hail His noodly appendage!

Unknown2008-11-07 17:28:21
QUOTE
And she will gain over time the one thing she was missing this cycle, and it isn't "experience" but what experience is often a proxy for -- mastery. What Gov. Palin needs to do if she is to return to national politics is to find ways to convince people that she knows what she's talking about, and this can be done. She can develop her own views on the role of government and America's role in the world. She should become a voracious reader -- I'd start her out with The Economist -- every week, cover to cover, including the special reports on corporate social responsibility and the new nomadism -- as well as my smart friends over at The Next Right.

And in 2015 (if not sooner), I'd predict, we'll see a new Sarah Palin criss-crossing the early primary states, with a few more lines in her face and perhaps a Bonnie Raitt streak of grey in her hair at the age of 51 -- a reformer with results from the Last Frontier -- and we will need to take her very, very seriously.

Or to take another example: the losing candidate for Vice President in 1920 lacked experience, but gained much respect as an energetic campaigner for his party's ticket, especially in the West, where he railed against the large sums of money being spent by the other party in the election. Still, his party failed to win outside the South, and the Electoral College was a rout. After the election he returned to his home state, built up quite a record as Governor, gave rousing speeches at his party's conventions, and in 1932 Franklin Delano Roosevelt was elected to his first of four terms as President of the United States.

Yes, my friends, we will have Sarah Palin to kick around once more, and she will be formidable. Mark my words.

From Dailykos, On Sarah Palin

What do you think?
Unknown2008-11-07 17:29:42
Double post
Noola2008-11-07 17:30:03
QUOTE(Tael Talnara @ Nov 7 2008, 11:24 AM) 580146
We all know the one true religion is the Church of the Flying Spahgetti Monster

All hail His noodly appendage!



I'm hungry enough to EAT the Flying Spaghetti Monster. laugh.gif
Noola2008-11-07 18:09:04
Wow! 30 minute double post! laugh.gif
Stangmar2008-11-07 18:38:33
+1 on Rainydays.

I disagree with Obama, and his personal life and who he associates with. But he won the election, and I must accept that. I'm not going to waste the next 4-8 years griping and moaning about how the election was stolen, as it would accomplish nothing, and make me look like an ass. He will be my President, even if I disagree with him.
Myndaen2008-11-07 18:42:04
QUOTE(Archer2 @ Nov 7 2008, 09:10 AM) 580139
Am I the only one hearing (and getting irritated by) the rhetoric by some people that it's black people in California who're to blame for the passage of Prop 8? Personally, I find that ridiculous.


I think people are just trusting the exit polls and repeating the exit poll statistics, mingled with a tinge of racism. tongue.gif
Desitrus2008-11-07 18:59:16
QUOTE(Archer2 @ Nov 7 2008, 11:10 AM) 580139
Am I the only one hearing (and getting irritated by) the rhetoric by some people that it's black people in California who're to blame for the passage of Prop 8? Personally, I find that ridiculous.


Odd, I had heard it was the Mexican-americans who came out in force for prop 8 on the racial side of the exit-polling, easily believable due to an overwhelming amount of devout catholics.