Copernicus. He be the :censor:.

I'm sorry, I have to call this out as complete and utter BS. Daganev, do you even know what a "test tube baby" is? It's when an egg cell from a female is fertilized by sperm from a male, but in a laboratory setting instead of in a uterus. The fertilized egg(s) are then surgically implanted into the womb of the mother. The development of this procedure has no bearing on allowing gay couples to have children, and can not turn two sperm cells or two egg cells into a baby. What this procedure -does- affect is the national supply of embryonic stem cells, but that's for another thread.


I'm.... kind of hurt by this comment. I'm a fairly devout Roman Catholic. I study biology with a focus on genetics and evolution and work in a genetics lab where I can force the evolution of organisms over the course of a few generations. Or am I unclassified from the cast of "evil Bible-thumper"?

Take your high-falutin logicals out of here.

I get the feeling that there are more than a couple people on here that would ban religion completely if they got the chance.....

Why do you hate me so?

Sure, there are extremists on both sides but I do believe the majority of us would ask you to stay out of our lives and we will stay out of yours.

There's a difference between a religious person and a bible-thumper.

Edited: This thread is getting ugly with intolerance being flung, in particular the religious discussions which I suspect are done more to stir the pot than anything else. Close it please.



:Shakehead: Divisive, uninformed and just incredibly poor form

But Kaalak, you're making it sound you like you want me to systematically insult every belief system and ideology ever until I get the thread locked.

Yes. There are people like Verithrax and whoever else I was abusing earlier (there are just so many to choose from!) who think religion is responsible for all the world's ills, that ijt is evil and WHY IS EVERYONE SO STUPID WHY CAN THEY NOT THINK LIKE ME. IT IS SO HARD BEING THE SMARTEST PERSON IN A ROOMFUL OF IDIOTS.

Well, not *exactly* that, unless you're Of The MIghty Unibrow, but you get the idea.

You are using your remarkably narrow view and experience with single denomination to condemn everyone who has the balls to believe in something you disagree with. You are making blanket claims that religion corrupts people, and that somehow, people aren't to blame for their own actions.

You are no better than the people you condemn.

It really is amazing to me. I live in suburban Texas, the middle of the bible belt. The most judgemental people I come across are the people who don't believe in organized religion. The people that think they are superior because they've risen above the so called opression of faith and good will. It's sad because yes, a lot of these people have been judged by the fanatical, bible throwing Christians and it has skewed their perception on the religion as a whole, but again, personal responsibility. At some point people need to rise above the bigoted acts of a few, and embrace the fact that those few do not define the religion as a whole.

I do not defend the over zealous right who preach hellfire and brimstone to everyone who disagrees with them, but I do not condemn them either, because then I would be them.

That is exactly what I said when Obama won. I like this Dennis Praeger.

Someone said it already, but +1 Rainydays.



Honestly, despite all the mocking of Palin, she really did re-energize the McCain campaign. I think that if she had been around an extra month, the results may have been different.

If she did start reading things like The Economist end to end, and did what the article said, she could very well be a powerful candidate. She should NOT try in 2012 though, if she wants any hope at being President in the near future.

Edit: Right now, I'm mostly afraid that Obama will revert back to his "most Liberal Senator" position as President. Right now, in this time, we do NOT need an extreme left or right President. We need a more moderate one. Well, at least in my opinion, that is.

Eeeh, I'm not so sure what an extra month of Palin would have meant for the McCain Camp, especially considering what came out of their campaigns concerning her in the last few days...

Also, I agree that in times of crisis, a Moderate President is often needed, but I hope that the Obama Administration doesn't go out of it's way to seem moderate if the have a solution they think is better, but would seem too Liberal.

Given that he was, apparently, the most "unashamedly liberal senator" I don't think there is much to worry about on that front.

Kinda seems to me at this point that Daganev's not gunna change. He's fine with us being relegated to second-class citizenship. (As defined: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_class_citizen " systematically discriminated against within a state , despite their nominal status as a citizen or legal resident there. Second-class citizens have limited, civil rights , and are often subject to mistreatment or neglect at the hands of their putative superiors. "

@Tervic: The fact that you use question marks and haven't called me a harlot of sin or something pretty much excludes you from the evil Bible-thumper category, which is reserved for...wait for it...evil bastards who use religion as a weapon to clout people who don't do what they say over the head.

@Kaalak: No, not really. I'm a Christian myself, go to church regularly, believe in God and all that jazz. I'm not talking about religious people. I specifically mentioned evil Bible-thumpers. For a definition, see above.

@Everyone asking for a close: Umm..this thread doesn't seem to have gotten very ugly at all, y'know. Things get a lot more heated every single time Celina ganks somebody, so...let's let it run for awhile? I'm kinda enjoying the posts.

Continued from citation:

"By contrast, a resident alien or foreign national may have limited rights within a jurisdiction (such as not being able to vote, and having to register with the government), but is also given the law's protection, and is usually accepted by the local population. A naturalized citizen carries essentially the same rights and responsibilities as any other citizen (a possible exception being ineligibility for certain public offices), and is also legally protected."

I'm still waiting to hear confirmation on whether or not California already has full legal and financial equivalency for Civil Unions. If they do, there is simply no way this is a case of "second class citizens."

You're illustrating the point. I used the Muslim example for detachment, but it works for basically any religion. The less religious you are, the more potential you have to be a positive force in the world. A Christian who is Christian in name only is probably ok, 'cept for the way said Christian can be manipulated by group identity (and that's fine, since we all face that). A Christian who believes in the literal truth of the Bible and is willing to take extraordinary steps to put his faith into practice is a universally bad person. If one of the requirements for being a decent human being is being only kinda religious, why would you give religion a free pass on anything?

It's fairly close, to California's credit. It does not guarantee any federal marriage rights (you aren't guaranteed time off to care for a critically ill domestic partner), and private distinctions between marriage and civil unions are legal (your insurance carrier does not have to provide family coverage to partners in a civil union, your employer can choose to extend certain benefits to marriages and not civil unions, etc.). All of the state benefits that matter are extended to both married couples and domestic partners.

Moiraine, you harlot of sin.