Noola2008-11-12 17:39:10
QUOTE(daganev @ Nov 12 2008, 10:20 AM) 581478
I imagine they get sent to the church orphanage/foster home.
Isn't it more likely that they call the police to report the abandonment, and social services to come and get the kid?
Daganev2008-11-12 18:07:42
QUOTE(Noola @ Nov 12 2008, 09:39 AM) 581495
Isn't it more likely that they call the police to report the abandonment, and social services to come and get the kid?
Not if they have their own orphanage... which is what we are talking about here...
Aerotan2008-11-12 18:08:10
If memory serves, the first place the child would be taken is the hospital or a clinic to treat for possible exposure-related illnesses. The next step after that depends on the church in question. Some will report the abandonment, some won't. If the church actually operates an orphanage, and not all, or indeed many, do, then the child will usually be placed there. If not they enter the state foster care system.
Daganev2008-11-12 18:16:02
QUOTE(Moiraine @ Nov 12 2008, 08:57 AM) 581486
So it's okay for gay people to have a chance at being socially kicked in the head by being taught rigid social rules that they won't fit into, only to discover this on their own at a relatively late age and thus be under the impression that they are wrong, sick, dirty or otherwise untouchable outcasts for being honest with themselves? Just not straight people, huh?
Umm... I'm sure kids growing up today don't feel sick, dirty, or otherwise untouchable outcasts, especially since there are plenty of same sex domestic partnerships with children, and its the law to treat everybody equally.
QUOTE
Sorry, that's ridiculous. No one here is urging that schools start telling little boys and little girls to marry each other. The scenario you describe would, in a world where gay or straight isn't something that gets everyone's panties in a twist, go something more like..
Boys/Girls/Boy&Girl say, "We're gonna get married when we grow up!"
Adult, "Haha. Okay. Hey, who wants lunch?"
..and then everyone continues their day, without any efforts(deliberate or otherwise) to set their children up for a fall either way.
Sounds to me like a decent way to go.
Boys/Girls/Boy&Girl say, "We're gonna get married when we grow up!"
Adult, "Haha. Okay. Hey, who wants lunch?"
..and then everyone continues their day, without any efforts(deliberate or otherwise) to set their children up for a fall either way.
Sounds to me like a decent way to go.
Apparently you are missing the point. Its not a question of what the Adult specifically says to the child, its a question of what the child learns about relationships in general. The confusion that some gay children currently experience will instead be the confusion that the majority of people experience. But I guess that's the goal of the movement anyway.
Daganev2008-11-12 18:19:31
QUOTE(Aerotan @ Nov 12 2008, 10:08 AM) 581498
If memory serves, the first place the child would be taken is the hospital or a clinic to treat for possible exposure-related illnesses. The next step after that depends on the church in question. Some will report the abandonment, some won't. If the church actually operates an orphanage, and not all, or indeed many, do, then the child will usually be placed there. If not they enter the state foster care system.
Well, the first place the child would be taken to, would be a car, or posisbly even into the hands of a person. And maybe they will first be taken to the bathroom to be changed. :roll:
The conversation was about a church run orphanage that is shutting down, because they aren't allowed to discriminate who they give children to.
Some were trying to say that the children come from the State in the first place, and I was pointing out that sometimes, the children are given directly to the Church, and not from the State.
Unknown2008-11-12 18:51:16
If I'm getting it right, Daganev is saying that if a mother gives the baby to the church, it is assumed she wants the baby to be raised by a religious family, and it's OK.
Perfectly acceptable point of view if you also agree with the religious indoctrination millions of children are being subjected to all the time with no hint of disdain from society.
Perfectly acceptable point of view if you also agree with the religious indoctrination millions of children are being subjected to all the time with no hint of disdain from society.
Nocht2008-11-12 20:53:37
It doesn't really matter if the baby is given directly to a church by the parent. It's still perfectly reasonable for the way the church manages adoptions to be regulated by the state. I couldn't just run out and start collecting abandoned babies to give away to whomever I felt like.
Unknown2008-11-12 21:01:16
QUOTE(Nocht @ Nov 12 2008, 03:53 PM) 581533
It doesn't really matter if the baby is given directly to a church by the parent. It's still perfectly reasonable for the way the church manages adoptions to be regulated by the state. I couldn't just run out and start collecting abandoned babies to give away to whomever I felt like.
... Nocht running around a marketplace with a basket full of babies.
Thank you for that imagery. Thank you.
Nocht2008-11-12 21:02:37
A nice stockpile for when Glomdoring needs to summon Mother Night
Unknown2008-11-12 21:04:12
QUOTE(Nocht @ Nov 12 2008, 04:02 PM) 581535
A nice stockpile for when Glomdoring needs to summon Mother Night
Tervic2008-11-12 21:26:39
QUOTE(daganev @ Nov 11 2008, 06:26 PM) 581339
It wasn't the point in California, and it isn't the point in California.
In California, with our without prop 8, gay couples can adopt, live together, love each other, and have all the rights and responsibilities that married people have if they so choose.
The question raised to California voters was basically "Do you want the state to recognize, and thereby have your children be taught in our public schools, that marriage is to be defined as only between a man and a woman?"
It has nothing to do with the rights given to same sex couples (they already have all the rights and privileges and responsibilities that marriages have), nor does it have anything to do with defining love or commitment, or daily family structure.
You would think that California did not have domestic partnerships giving equal treatment under the law, based on the protests and video clips such as these.
In California, with our without prop 8, gay couples can adopt, live together, love each other, and have all the rights and responsibilities that married people have if they so choose.
The question raised to California voters was basically "Do you want the state to recognize, and thereby have your children be taught in our public schools, that marriage is to be defined as only between a man and a woman?"
It has nothing to do with the rights given to same sex couples (they already have all the rights and privileges and responsibilities that marriages have), nor does it have anything to do with defining love or commitment, or daily family structure.
You would think that California did not have domestic partnerships giving equal treatment under the law, based on the protests and video clips such as these.
I'm not sure why everyone is just focusing on California. What about other states that passed two propositions, one to ban gay marriage and another to only let married couples adopt (and no, civil unions do not count as marriage under their law)? In my eyes, as soon as there is any kind of separation, be it in terminology used or whatever, the system is being set up for easy divisiveness.
QUOTE(Nocht @ Nov 12 2008, 12:53 PM) 581533
I couldn't just run out and start collecting abandoned babies to give away to whomever I felt like.
Baby farming! (An actual line from Gilbert and Sullivan's HMS Pinafore, referring to the art of being a foster parent)
Ashteru2008-11-12 21:51:44
QUOTE(daganev @ Nov 12 2008, 05:19 PM) 581477
Do you think we need to have classes and laws that tells people that being into S&M is ok? Perhaps we should classes explaining the virtues of the foot fetish, and panty lovers to children as well?
Lol. What the F. Are you calling homosexuality a fetish?
Yrael2008-11-12 21:55:15
QUOTE(Ashteru @ Nov 13 2008, 08:51 AM) 581543
Lol. What the F. Are you calling homosexuality a fetish?
He's comparing it to alternate modes of sexual deviancy.
Oh, christ. I feel so *dirty*. Pardon me, I'll be in the shower with some bleach and steel wool.
Aerotan2008-11-12 21:56:38
QUOTE(Tervic @ Nov 12 2008, 05:26 PM) 581538
I'm not sure why everyone is just focusing on California. What about other states that passed two propositions, one to ban gay marriage and another to only let married couples adopt (and no, civil unions do not count as marriage under their law)? In my eyes, as soon as there is any kind of separation, be it in terminology used or whatever, the system is being set up for easy divisiveness.
Baby farming! (An actual line from Gilbert and Sullivan's HMS Pinafore, referring to the art of being a foster parent)
Baby farming! (An actual line from Gilbert and Sullivan's HMS Pinafore, referring to the art of being a foster parent)
IIRC, there was more than one state in the former category. At the very least, I know it passed here in AZ, and I think it did in CO or CT...
EDIT: This is not Quotes, Context is important
Daganev2008-11-12 21:59:44
QUOTE(Tervic @ Nov 12 2008, 01:26 PM) 581538
I'm not sure why everyone is just focusing on California. What about other states that passed two propositions, one to ban gay marriage and another to only let married couples adopt (and no, civil unions do not count as marriage under their law)? In my eyes, as soon as there is any kind of separation, be it in terminology used or whatever, the system is being set up for easy divisiveness.
Well, I don't agree with states that do that, and that is in fact a problem, and is not equal in any way.
However, there are people doing heavy protests in California, where such a separation and inequality is not an issue. I'd be out there protesting to, if they didn't give equal rights to domestic partners, but they do.
Aerotan2008-11-12 22:18:44
Are civil unions and marriages legally defined as synonyms? Meaning that if a change is made to what can be offered to married couples, will it automatically apply to civil unions as well? And can the civil union be carried from state to state without being annulled? Can it be offered to non-residents of the state? And finally can a corporation define seperate benefits packages for those in civil unions than those in marriages?
Unknown2008-11-12 22:24:17
You're such a nitpicking perfectionist!
Daganev2008-11-12 22:38:10
QUOTE(Aerotan @ Nov 12 2008, 02:18 PM) 581548
qs
as
Are civil unions and marriages legally defined as synonyms? Meaning that if a change is made to what can be offered to married couples, will it automatically apply to civil unions as well?
No idea, but it says its the same in all state functions.
And can the civil union be carried from state to state without being annulled?
No, because of the DOMA act, which would be true even if you called it marriage. The federal government does not recognize same sex marriages as marriages, no matter what title you give it.
Can it be offered to non-residents of the state? -- yes
And finally can a corporation define separate benefits packages for those in civil unions than those in marriages?
As much as a corporation is allowed to define things, they can do whatever they want as long as it does not discriminate based on age,sex,creed,race, or sexual preferences.
Furien2008-11-12 23:30:40
Desitrus2008-11-12 23:33:52
QUOTE(Furien @ Nov 12 2008, 05:30 PM) 581571