I'm going to agree that order wars should be order vs. order. If eventru against fain and celenwilde and magnadoring go in and help each order then this is just going to be another org conflict and people will expect you to help. It will stop being optional conflict, which this is supposed to be. Can't we just have one optional conflict that stays that way?

And you my friend are equally crazy if you think for one second Eventru's Order has enough combatants to fight Fain's AND if you really think it would be fun. We'd be crushed almost instantly. And I'm fairly certain you know this. In fact, we'd -never- accept. Period.

Would you please describe in detail why it wouldn't be optional? I don't see you actively participate in the defense of Earth, Nil, or Magnagora in general (you often just sit at the Megalith of Doom). It's clearly optional when Celest raids Magnagora or when Celenwilde raids Magnagora or when Narsrim raids Magnagora. How is this different?

For the most part, all combat is optional. Nariah doesn't fling herself into the fray every time someone raids Nil. She does help out as she sees fit, but she clearly exercises her right to not participate all the time. And I would say this is most people who don't like/care for combat.

Then don't fight Fain. Fight a order that is on your level. I'm not sure what Nocht has for fighters but if they are on your level what would keep Eventru from fighting them? Same goes for Viravain's order.

You miss the point. Elder Gods are based on Circles that fit their personality and make. Let's use Isune as an example: she doesn't have a single attractive feature for combatants. She's fairly placid. She has no general interest in warfare. She's flighty and aloof. Is it realistic to ever except Her Order to ever be able to stand up against one that is based around strategic warfare, combat, murder, etc?

Likewise, you don't even make a valid point. Eventru, Terentia, may not "agree" with Viravain/Nocht/etc on all issues, but they do not consider them enemies. Why would Eventru declare on Viravain? Nocht? There is no basis for this.

Na'tchia! You see, it's optional. Fain says "Yes", Eventru says "Yes", and then all hell breaks loose when everyone else wants a peice of this pie.

Yes, Order wars are optional. We want to prevent the peanut gallery from picking up axes and joining in though, because that's not part of the agreement here. I want to prevent my optional Order War from becoming a free-for-all centered on two Divine.

Jigan, I'm not going to argue with you. You base your arguments on speculation and generally misplaced theory. If anyone has helped "younger people" learn to fight it's Terentia's Order. Why? Catarin offers a free system that cures exceptionally well to everyone.

I have no idea and will never understand why some people try and make every issue centered around novices and then go into a tangent about why their organization is clearly treating novices better and involving them more. Stay on topic, please.

It's optional if it's Celenwilde vs. Magnadoring too. It's just not preferential to you. There is a difference.

Torturer Vathael Feyranti (Male Demigod).
He is 77 years old, having been born on the 20th of Klangiary, 148 years after the Coming of Estarra.
He is ranked 4th in Lusternia.
He is an extremely credible character.
He is an Avatar of Morgfyre, the Legion.

How many demigods does Fain's Order have?

How exactly is Catarin's system helping something ICly?

However, I think this new system is an excellent way to bring life into the Orders. Possibly. If an Order wants to do well, they'll definitely step up recruitment.

I think you want it to stay the way it is because you like being on the winning side (Celenwilde). As proven before, when it's just a pure celest vs mag showdown you tend to die way too much for your own liking

Order vs Order only please.

Learning to fight is an OOC mechanic. It's not IC. I could sit around all day emoting about how I use my tahto in combat, but it doesn't actually "teach" someone to fight. It doesn't "teach" them to cure. The point Jigan made was that Fain's Order is apparently doing well in recruiting combatants because of something it does IC. I think that's silly.

I think you're jealous of my superior diplomacy

Serenwilde doesn't hate Magnagora because of something Celest did. It's something you did. And you pay the price for those consequences constantly. Stop trying to circumvent roleplaying with mechanics, cheater!

Thoros and crew take them out hunting, they spar and show them where they failed to cure, they are willing to point out where mistakes were made. They teach them where to hunt on their own and come to their aid when needed. This is not "Tee-Hee, you swing for the gut in this fashion, la~la~la" it's making them want to continue fighting and learn how to do things so they are exicited, are willing to learn, and eventually become good fighters.

In the end it doesn't really make a difference how it is set up. Lusternians play to win for the most part. All those high achiever types that make up the combatants of the game want to win. As it's currently set up, a Magnagoran or Glomdoring order would not accept a war because of some belief that they cannot compete with the Celenwide zerg.

If it goes to strictly order vs. order Fain's order will never get a fight because Fain has more combatants than other orders due to the rather singular god setup in Magnagora and no one feels like being their punching bag. And honestly, recruiting people to an order (which is a lot like a family) just for their combat ability is a good way to ruin the rather nice atmosphere orders tend to have so I doubt a lot of people will go for it.

Now if gods agree to wars without taking into consideration their orders interest in fighting one, that's up to them but probably isn't a good overall recruitment strategy. But who knows, maybe orders will re-align to make the order vs. order more feasible and mutually satisfying. Maybe people will enthusiastically participate because the system is a ton of fun. Who knows.

Celenwilde was admin forced after the Undervault stuff came abouts. But yes I do like to brag that I'm the main reason Seren likes to get feisty at Magnagora. If they want to zerg with Celenwilde and team us with 1:3 odds, that's fine. They aren't proving anything except they are good at the zerging department.

Torturer Vathael Feyranti (Male Demigod).
He is 77 years old, having been born on the 20th of Klangiary, 148 years after the Coming of Estarra.
He is ranked 4th in Lusternia.
He is an extremely credible character.
He is an Avatar of Morgfyre, the Legion.
He is a Marquis in the Mighty Province of Magnagora.
He is the Queen's Own Torturer in the ur'Guard.
He is a Voyager to the Beyond in the Fellowship of Explorers.
He is a graduate of the College of Necromantic & Tainted Research (honours).
He is a member of the clan called 'House Feyranti.'
He is the clan head of the clan called 'Magna Turris.'
He is a member of the clan called 'The Barracks.'
He is a member of the clan called 'Disciples of Klangratch.'
He is a member of the clan called 'Cultural Presidium of the Engine.'
He is a mentor and able to take on proteges.
His motto: 'Aut victum vel intereo.'
He is considered to be approximately 125% of your might.
He has been divorced once.
He is a third generation member of the House of Feyranti.
See HONOURS FULL VATHAEL to view his 8 special honours.


Anyways, what the hell kind of tangeant are we on? The argument is that no one will participate in Orderwars as they are currently because it has to be a mutual agreement. Thoros has said, and reasonably so, that should be given the power to war with Eventry or whomever, he will not because he knows he won't actually be fighting Eventru's Order. He will be fighting Celenwilde. If Orderwars are going to turn into the same, exact form of conflict we have now, then what's the point? I really don't care to sit in Fain land watching the zerg swarm over, taking a Shuyin stab to the face while "Eventru" declares war. It's a glorified Nil/Celestia raid that will end up like weakenings. Essentially, the Orderwar system won't be used unless a divine makes us use it. Then players will just be pissed.

There is no ulterior motive, which Narsrim is desperately trying to make it seem like, because (as everyone has pointed out) we can just decline to participate. If we don't want to be griefed, we don't have to agree to it just like you don't have to agree to it. Switching it to strictly Order v Order does not benefit the Fainites because, please read carefully, you can still turn it down.

Order vs Order only at least gives the Orders the option of picking Orders with their military might.