Shiri2009-01-05 15:15:42
Furrikin are ok. Nothing special, but not abjectly horrible either. Just suboptimal.
EDIT: Also, furrikin is acceptable in basically every class but warrior, which only just occured to me now and I can't think of any other races with that trait
EDIT: Also, furrikin is acceptable in basically every class but warrior, which only just occured to me now and I can't think of any other races with that trait
Aison2009-01-05 15:18:41
I doubt Estarra will allow racial changes again. She said somewhere around here that the problem with a few races being overpowered was solved. I don't buy it, of course, and think the races mentioned above are too underpowered, but we'll see if she changes her mind once some numbers are crunched.
Veyrzhul2009-01-05 15:21:22
QUOTE
Will furrikin get something beyond nerfs this time around?
According to what I heard so far, the rolling ability is the same as tumbling? If so, I'd vote to speed it up a little, maybe to somewhere in between tumbling and somersaulting.
Kiradawea2009-01-05 15:23:51
Furrikin being "ok" is the whole problem. Anything a furrikin can do, some other race can do better. Well, except skirting the requirement of Tumble in Environment. But there's still nothing a furrikin can do that I can't make a human or faeling do better.
Tael2009-01-05 15:59:41
QUOTE (Kiradawea @ Jan 5 2009, 10:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Furrikin being "ok" is the whole problem. Anything a furrikin can do, some other race can do better. Well, except skirting the requirement of Tumble in Environment. But there's still nothing a furrikin can do that I can't make a human or faeling do better.
As someone who was Furrikin for awhile, I can say that the race is fairly decent. The only rebalance they would need is to perhaps make Roll faster than Tumble. Right now, they're just offshoots of one another.
EDIT: But cheers on the whole looking at elemental weaknesses bit. I agree with Desitrus's point above.
Unknown2009-01-05 16:17:28
I know everyone wants to support some pet race or another, but we just had an overhaul, and things are better, overall, after than before. While my favorite race, Aslaran, was made essentially non-viable for me, I'll take the changes after rather than the "speed bonuses rule all" scenario we had before.
That said, I feel that action should be taken to make all totem/ritual races competetive. They are symbolic of the city/commune, and should be present in arguably a majority.
Elfen are great, obviously. Mostly from the "wall o' stats" that they have. Viscanti aren't as hot in the stats department, but their resists and regeneration more than make up for it. I even went viscanti with Akui a while back, unspecc'd, deep in the tunnels, just before the month changed, to try it out, and their toughness from the resists is very noticeable. The level 3 regen in taint is nice too.
Merian are just sorta crappy. Faelings have their moments for certain things, and probably don't need too much, other than that the warrior spec is so bereft of STR that, in our new, "must be a demi with loads of strength" world, they aren't viable on the high end.
So, rework Merian. Lose the elemental vulnerabilities already. They're out of place on a totem/rituals race, completely, period. After that, tweak them a bit as necessary to bring them up to speed.
Other than that, maybe prop up knight-spec faeling STR a bit, and we might be good to go.
That said, I feel that action should be taken to make all totem/ritual races competetive. They are symbolic of the city/commune, and should be present in arguably a majority.
Elfen are great, obviously. Mostly from the "wall o' stats" that they have. Viscanti aren't as hot in the stats department, but their resists and regeneration more than make up for it. I even went viscanti with Akui a while back, unspecc'd, deep in the tunnels, just before the month changed, to try it out, and their toughness from the resists is very noticeable. The level 3 regen in taint is nice too.
Merian are just sorta crappy. Faelings have their moments for certain things, and probably don't need too much, other than that the warrior spec is so bereft of STR that, in our new, "must be a demi with loads of strength" world, they aren't viable on the high end.
So, rework Merian. Lose the elemental vulnerabilities already. They're out of place on a totem/rituals race, completely, period. After that, tweak them a bit as necessary to bring them up to speed.
Other than that, maybe prop up knight-spec faeling STR a bit, and we might be good to go.
Malicia2009-01-05 16:29:21
Some ideas for merian:
Improve base CON by +1-2
Improve equillibrium bonus. +2 would be satisfactory
Remove elemental penalties or reduce to level 1
Automatic waterwalking
Level 1 sip bonus
Increased movement underwater
Raise water regen to +3
Add resistance to cold damage: +2. Makes sense, if fire/electric are going to hurt so much.
Add resistance to magic: +1 or 2
Add resistance to cutting: +1 or 2
New! Increase salve balance by +1. Since merian are all slippery and such!
New! Increase writhing times by +1
I'll think of more. The op was scribbled in haste, but I'm glad Desitrus posted some test results.
Improve base CON by +1-2
Improve equillibrium bonus. +2 would be satisfactory
Remove elemental penalties or reduce to level 1
Automatic waterwalking
Level 1 sip bonus
Increased movement underwater
Raise water regen to +3
Add resistance to cold damage: +2. Makes sense, if fire/electric are going to hurt so much.
Add resistance to magic: +1 or 2
Add resistance to cutting: +1 or 2
New! Increase salve balance by +1. Since merian are all slippery and such!
New! Increase writhing times by +1
I'll think of more. The op was scribbled in haste, but I'm glad Desitrus posted some test results.
Unknown2009-01-05 16:42:45
Mug.Wump.
Tael2009-01-05 16:45:40
QUOTE (Malicia @ Jan 5 2009, 11:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Some ideas for merian:
Improve equillibrium bonus. +2 would be satisfactory
Remove elemental penalties or reduce to level 1
Automatic waterwalking
Increased movement underwater
Raise water regen to +3
Add resistance to cold damage: +2. Makes sense, if fire/electric are going to hurt so much.
Add resistance to magic: +1 or 2
Add resistance to cutting: +1 or 2
New! Increase salve balance by +1. Since merian are all slippery and such!
New! Increase writhing times by +1
I'll think of more. The op was scribbled in haste, but I'm glad Desitrus posted some test results.
Improve equillibrium bonus. +2 would be satisfactory
Remove elemental penalties or reduce to level 1
Automatic waterwalking
Increased movement underwater
Raise water regen to +3
Add resistance to cold damage: +2. Makes sense, if fire/electric are going to hurt so much.
Add resistance to magic: +1 or 2
Add resistance to cutting: +1 or 2
New! Increase salve balance by +1. Since merian are all slippery and such!
New! Increase writhing times by +1
I'll think of more. The op was scribbled in haste, but I'm glad Desitrus posted some test results.
Eq boost sounds alright.
Reduce to Level 1 for elemental penalties, or admin should redo the penalties.
No to the automatic waterwalk.
Dunno what you mean by increased movement.
Increased water regen is unnesc.
Cold damage resist makes sense for Merian. As does magic to an extent, cutting not so much.
Salve balance is cool, writhing balance not so much.
I'd say give Merian a Lv. 1 Village Influence boost, MAYBE.
Malicia2009-01-05 16:50:29
QUOTE (Tael Talnara @ Jan 5 2009, 10:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Eq boost sounds alright. Mhm. Indeed.
Reduce to Level 1 for elemental penalties, or admin should redo the penalties.
No to the automatic waterwalk. (sadface) But I want it!
Dunno what you mean by increased movement. Faster swimming, essentially.
Increased water regen is unnesc. Perhaps.
Cold damage resist makes sense for Merian. As does magic to an extent, cutting not so much. And why not on the cutting?
Salve balance is cool, writhing balance not so much. +1 to writhing balance would be amazing.
I'd say give Merian a Lv. 1 Village Influence boost, MAYBE. Maybe so!
Reduce to Level 1 for elemental penalties, or admin should redo the penalties.
No to the automatic waterwalk. (sadface) But I want it!
Dunno what you mean by increased movement. Faster swimming, essentially.
Increased water regen is unnesc. Perhaps.
Cold damage resist makes sense for Merian. As does magic to an extent, cutting not so much. And why not on the cutting?
Salve balance is cool, writhing balance not so much. +1 to writhing balance would be amazing.
I'd say give Merian a Lv. 1 Village Influence boost, MAYBE. Maybe so!
Ashteru2009-01-05 16:51:19
Just reduce the elemental penalties to level 1 and then leave them alone..?
I don't see the need for sweeping changes, eh.
I don't see the need for sweeping changes, eh.
Malicia2009-01-05 16:52:05
You mean, like all the improvements to Viscanti?
Desitrus2009-01-05 16:53:14
People need to remember it's not just Merians. Mugwumps don't exist because taking 30% extra electric and 20% extra fire in today's Lusternia means that you fall over instantly. The demi zap-train will kill you in a heartbeat. Probably only need 4 demis to drop a demigod mugwump with pure zapping. That's just bad.
Veyr, it has to scale. I understand that from a role-play perspective a giant warrior with blazing weapons could probably one-shot someone, but that is "fun" for no one. Before knight damage was toned down, seeing non demi-gods die in under 4s to four hammer-swings from the same person was not uncommon. It's not fun for anyone.
Celina: Tomorrow near the month turn I'll try 16 int, but my staff was still pretty much on the same linear scale at 18 int before I got the knowledge blessing. My guess is that I will see far better return just going with 10% war karma instead of 2 int karma. 18 int is easy for non demis to get, as it's any 16 int race with Knowledge.
Veyr, it has to scale. I understand that from a role-play perspective a giant warrior with blazing weapons could probably one-shot someone, but that is "fun" for no one. Before knight damage was toned down, seeing non demi-gods die in under 4s to four hammer-swings from the same person was not uncommon. It's not fun for anyone.
Celina: Tomorrow near the month turn I'll try 16 int, but my staff was still pretty much on the same linear scale at 18 int before I got the knowledge blessing. My guess is that I will see far better return just going with 10% war karma instead of 2 int karma. 18 int is easy for non demis to get, as it's any 16 int race with Knowledge.
Nepthysia2009-01-05 16:55:15
Psh.. We all know merians need to just die already.
Agree with Tael for the most part.
With the slippery comment though writhing would be more logical, putting salves on something already slimy doesn't mean it will absorb faster, in fact I think just the opposite would apply.
S'pose increased swimming ability may work but not really sure mechanically the game differentiates what surface you're on/in.
Agree with Tael for the most part.
With the slippery comment though writhing would be more logical, putting salves on something already slimy doesn't mean it will absorb faster, in fact I think just the opposite would apply.
S'pose increased swimming ability may work but not really sure mechanically the game differentiates what surface you're on/in.
Ashteru2009-01-05 16:55:22
QUOTE (Malicia @ Jan 5 2009, 05:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You mean, like all the improvements to Viscanti?
That was during the racial rebalance, and you had a chance to present your case too.
EDIT: Faelings suck too, mostly. Our own fault for providing bad arguments during the rebalancing, can't change that. People still play as them.
But I already said, I can see why you want lesser penalties. The rest is just unnecessary.
Shiri2009-01-05 16:56:42
QUOTE (Ashteru @ Jan 5 2009, 04:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
That was during the racial rebalance, and you had a chance to present your case too.
I think the part where int scaling was changed was immediately after racial rebalancing.
Malicia2009-01-05 16:57:25
QUOTE (Nepthysia d'Iasani @ Jan 5 2009, 10:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Psh.. We all know merians need to just die already.
Agree with Tael for the most part.
With the slippery comment though writhing would be more logical, putting salves on something already slimy doesn't mean it will absorb faster, in fact I think just the opposite would apply.
S'pose increased swimming ability may work but not really sure mechanically the game differentiates what surface you're on/in.
Agree with Tael for the most part.
With the slippery comment though writhing would be more logical, putting salves on something already slimy doesn't mean it will absorb faster, in fact I think just the opposite would apply.
S'pose increased swimming ability may work but not really sure mechanically the game differentiates what surface you're on/in.
Merian aren't slimy. They're absorbent!
Unknown2009-01-05 17:00:11
Hmm, looking it over, I'd say:
Remove elemental weaknesses. They're uncessary and awkward to balance, especially for a totem/rituals race.
Increase base constitution +2, but reduce Merian Lord con bonus from +5 to +3 or +4.
Other than that, maybe, maybe not add in resists. Viscanti may not have great stats, but they have level 2 resists to magic, cutting, and blunt. Three really major damage sources. I'd be for giving Merian some resists as well, which would set the commune spec races apart from the city spec races in an interesting way.
Edit- and the "you had a chance to present your case" argument is bad from any angle on any issue. Especially with an ongoing concern like a game. If there is a problem somewhere, and it can be shown to be one, it should be fixed when possible.
Remove elemental weaknesses. They're uncessary and awkward to balance, especially for a totem/rituals race.
Increase base constitution +2, but reduce Merian Lord con bonus from +5 to +3 or +4.
Other than that, maybe, maybe not add in resists. Viscanti may not have great stats, but they have level 2 resists to magic, cutting, and blunt. Three really major damage sources. I'd be for giving Merian some resists as well, which would set the commune spec races apart from the city spec races in an interesting way.
Edit- and the "you had a chance to present your case" argument is bad from any angle on any issue. Especially with an ongoing concern like a game. If there is a problem somewhere, and it can be shown to be one, it should be fixed when possible.
Nepthysia2009-01-05 17:00:59
QUOTE (Malicia @ Jan 5 2009, 11:57 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Merian aren't slimy. They're absorbent!
Sorry but merian = ocean dweller = fish of some sort = protective layer of slimy substance over skin & that is how they will always be seen to me.
Ashteru2009-01-05 17:02:24
QUOTE (Shiri @ Jan 5 2009, 05:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I think the part where int scaling was changed was immediately after racial rebalancing.
Well, sucks, but if major changes were a reason for relooking at races, I believe a lot of people would argue for their races to be looked at.