Unknown2009-01-18 00:28:46
While this is not going to be a popular suggestion, I believe it is an important fix to be made before any significant changes can be made to make Influencing more rewarding.
At the moment when you influence a mob, if you have an equilibrium bonus or attack immediately on regaining equilibrium, you are never 'hit' by the mob's influence attacks. Your influence attack essentially interrupts theirs, and providing you keep your conversation quick, you only need worry about the ego you are using to make your argument.
As an example, influencing an astrologer I take the following hits:
Now, if I am too slow in doing this (which obviously I am not, but for illustration):
So by timing my attacks, I prevent around about 800 ego per 5 seconds from being drained, and my attacks on this level of creature cost only around 250 ego each on average.
I suggest that this 'interrupt' of the NPC's attacks makes influencing too easy. No matter how fast I am in bashing, I can't block the creature from ever hitting me, and I think the same principle needs to apply to Influence. Otherwise, the importance of equilibrium bonuses is overemphasised, and you can overpower creatures that are otherwise much higher level than yourself because they simply don't get a chance to do anything.
There are already no afflictions in Influence, and mobs do not necessarily follow if you step out of the room. You can instantly deaggro an NPC you have been influencing if you find them too dangerous, and no entity yet can actively engage an influence battle that you yourself don't start.
Given all these advantages to influence, I believe that not allowing mobs to even hit you is too much, and will make valuable influence rewards impossible to balance fairly as there just isn't enough challenge involved.
Mobs should not be dumbstruck every time you open your mouth, they should be able to question your motives irrespective of how quickly you are talking.
At the moment when you influence a mob, if you have an equilibrium bonus or attack immediately on regaining equilibrium, you are never 'hit' by the mob's influence attacks. Your influence attack essentially interrupts theirs, and providing you keep your conversation quick, you only need worry about the ego you are using to make your argument.
As an example, influencing an astrologer I take the following hits:
CODE
3455h, 5098m, 5940e, 10p, 13575en, 21225w exk<>-<52:171>
Keeping up a non-stop patter, you keep wheedling a lucidian astrologer to give up his worldly goods
to you in a dizzying display of circuitous logic.
A lucidian astrologer's face drops and he looks a little guilty, but shakes his head at you.
3455h, 5098m, 5670e, 10p, 13575en, 21220w xk<>-<52:359>Â Â
You have recovered equilibrium.
3455h, 5098m, 5670e, 10p, 13575en, 21225w exk<>-<55:750>
Explaining your abject poverty, you humbly request a little help from a lucidian astrologer.
A lucidian astrologer's face drops and he looks a little guilty, but shakes his head at you.
3455h, 5098m, 5373e, 10p, 13575en, 21220w xk<>-<56:843>Â Â
You have recovered equilibrium.
3455h, 5098m, 5373e, 10p, 13575en, 21225w exk<>-<00:250>
You thrust your hand out to a lucidian astrologer and beg shamelessly.
A lucidian astrologer's face drops and he looks a little guilty, but shakes his head at you.
3455h, 5098m, 5117e, 10p, 13575en, 21220w xk<>-<01:640>Â Â
You have recovered equilibrium.
3455h, 5098m, 5117e, 10p, 13575en, 21225w exk<>-<04:812>
Keeping up a non-stop patter, you keep wheedling a lucidian astrologer to give up his worldly goods
to you in a dizzying display of circuitous logic.
A lucidian astrologer's face drops and he looks a little guilty, but shakes his head at you.
3455h, 5098m, 4896e, 10p, 13575en, 21220w xk<>-<05:859>Â Â
You have recovered equilibrium.
3455h, 5098m, 4896e, 10p, 13575en, 21225w exk<>-<09:265>
Explaining your abject poverty, you humbly request a little help from a lucidian astrologer.
A lucidian astrologer's face drops and he looks a little guilty, but shakes his head at you.
3455h, 5098m, 4675e, 10p, 13575en, 21220w xk<>-<10:343>Â Â
You have recovered equilibrium.
3455h, 5098m, 4675e, 10p, 13575en, 21225w exk<>-<13:656>
You thrust your hand out to a lucidian astrologer and beg shamelessly.
A lucidian astrologer sighs dramatically and searches his pockets, looking for something to give
you.
Keeping up a non-stop patter, you keep wheedling a lucidian astrologer to give up his worldly goods
to you in a dizzying display of circuitous logic.
A lucidian astrologer's face drops and he looks a little guilty, but shakes his head at you.
3455h, 5098m, 5670e, 10p, 13575en, 21220w xk<>-<52:359>Â Â
You have recovered equilibrium.
3455h, 5098m, 5670e, 10p, 13575en, 21225w exk<>-<55:750>
Explaining your abject poverty, you humbly request a little help from a lucidian astrologer.
A lucidian astrologer's face drops and he looks a little guilty, but shakes his head at you.
3455h, 5098m, 5373e, 10p, 13575en, 21220w xk<>-<56:843>Â Â
You have recovered equilibrium.
3455h, 5098m, 5373e, 10p, 13575en, 21225w exk<>-<00:250>
You thrust your hand out to a lucidian astrologer and beg shamelessly.
A lucidian astrologer's face drops and he looks a little guilty, but shakes his head at you.
3455h, 5098m, 5117e, 10p, 13575en, 21220w xk<>-<01:640>Â Â
You have recovered equilibrium.
3455h, 5098m, 5117e, 10p, 13575en, 21225w exk<>-<04:812>
Keeping up a non-stop patter, you keep wheedling a lucidian astrologer to give up his worldly goods
to you in a dizzying display of circuitous logic.
A lucidian astrologer's face drops and he looks a little guilty, but shakes his head at you.
3455h, 5098m, 4896e, 10p, 13575en, 21220w xk<>-<05:859>Â Â
You have recovered equilibrium.
3455h, 5098m, 4896e, 10p, 13575en, 21225w exk<>-<09:265>
Explaining your abject poverty, you humbly request a little help from a lucidian astrologer.
A lucidian astrologer's face drops and he looks a little guilty, but shakes his head at you.
3455h, 5098m, 4675e, 10p, 13575en, 21220w xk<>-<10:343>Â Â
You have recovered equilibrium.
3455h, 5098m, 4675e, 10p, 13575en, 21225w exk<>-<13:656>
You thrust your hand out to a lucidian astrologer and beg shamelessly.
A lucidian astrologer sighs dramatically and searches his pockets, looking for something to give
you.
Now, if I am too slow in doing this (which obviously I am not, but for illustration):
CODE
3455h, 5098m, 5176e, 10p, 13573en, 21225w exk<>-<51:500>
You thrust your hand out to a lucidian astrologer and beg shamelessly.
A lucidian astrologer's face drops and he looks a little guilty, but shakes his head at you.
3455h, 5098m, 4952e, 10p, 13575en, 21220w xk<>-<59:687>Â Â
You have recovered equilibrium.
3455h, 5098m, 4952e, 10p, 13575en, 21225w exk<>-<03:109>
A lucidian astrologer demands of you, "What are you saying?"
Your ego drains as you consider your response.
3455h, 5098m, 4057e, 10p, 13575en, 21225w exk<>-<04:718>Â Â
You take a drink from an opal vial.
Ah, the soothing bromides help strengthen your ego. (354 sips remain.)
3455h, 5098m, 5306e, 10p, 13575en, 21225w exk<>-<04:953>Â Â
Explaining your abject poverty, you humbly request a little help from a lucidian astrologer.
A lucidian astrologer's face drops and he looks a little guilty, but shakes his head at you.
3455h, 5098m, 4948e, 10p, 13575en, 21220w xk<>-<05:296>Â Â
You have recovered equilibrium.
3455h, 5098m, 4948e, 10p, 13575en, 21225w exk<>-<08:734>
You may drink another health, mana, or bromide potion.
3455h, 5098m, 4948e, 10p, 13575en, 21225w exk<>-<09:390>
A lucidian astrologer demands of you, "What am I supposed to think of that?"
Your ego drains as you consider your response.
3455h, 5098m, 4204e, 10p, 13575en, 21225w exk<>-<10:359>Â Â
You take a drink from an opal vial.
Ah, the soothing bromides help strengthen your ego. (353 sips remain.)
3455h, 5098m, 5490e, 10p, 13575en, 21225w exk<>-<10:562>Â Â
Keeping up a non-stop patter, you keep wheedling a lucidian astrologer to give up his worldly goods
to you in a dizzying display of circuitous logic.
You thrust your hand out to a lucidian astrologer and beg shamelessly.
A lucidian astrologer's face drops and he looks a little guilty, but shakes his head at you.
3455h, 5098m, 4952e, 10p, 13575en, 21220w xk<>-<59:687>Â Â
You have recovered equilibrium.
3455h, 5098m, 4952e, 10p, 13575en, 21225w exk<>-<03:109>
A lucidian astrologer demands of you, "What are you saying?"
Your ego drains as you consider your response.
3455h, 5098m, 4057e, 10p, 13575en, 21225w exk<>-<04:718>Â Â
You take a drink from an opal vial.
Ah, the soothing bromides help strengthen your ego. (354 sips remain.)
3455h, 5098m, 5306e, 10p, 13575en, 21225w exk<>-<04:953>Â Â
Explaining your abject poverty, you humbly request a little help from a lucidian astrologer.
A lucidian astrologer's face drops and he looks a little guilty, but shakes his head at you.
3455h, 5098m, 4948e, 10p, 13575en, 21220w xk<>-<05:296>Â Â
You have recovered equilibrium.
3455h, 5098m, 4948e, 10p, 13575en, 21225w exk<>-<08:734>
You may drink another health, mana, or bromide potion.
3455h, 5098m, 4948e, 10p, 13575en, 21225w exk<>-<09:390>
A lucidian astrologer demands of you, "What am I supposed to think of that?"
Your ego drains as you consider your response.
3455h, 5098m, 4204e, 10p, 13575en, 21225w exk<>-<10:359>Â Â
You take a drink from an opal vial.
Ah, the soothing bromides help strengthen your ego. (353 sips remain.)
3455h, 5098m, 5490e, 10p, 13575en, 21225w exk<>-<10:562>Â Â
Keeping up a non-stop patter, you keep wheedling a lucidian astrologer to give up his worldly goods
to you in a dizzying display of circuitous logic.
So by timing my attacks, I prevent around about 800 ego per 5 seconds from being drained, and my attacks on this level of creature cost only around 250 ego each on average.
I suggest that this 'interrupt' of the NPC's attacks makes influencing too easy. No matter how fast I am in bashing, I can't block the creature from ever hitting me, and I think the same principle needs to apply to Influence. Otherwise, the importance of equilibrium bonuses is overemphasised, and you can overpower creatures that are otherwise much higher level than yourself because they simply don't get a chance to do anything.
There are already no afflictions in Influence, and mobs do not necessarily follow if you step out of the room. You can instantly deaggro an NPC you have been influencing if you find them too dangerous, and no entity yet can actively engage an influence battle that you yourself don't start.
Given all these advantages to influence, I believe that not allowing mobs to even hit you is too much, and will make valuable influence rewards impossible to balance fairly as there just isn't enough challenge involved.
Mobs should not be dumbstruck every time you open your mouth, they should be able to question your motives irrespective of how quickly you are talking.
Xenthos2009-01-18 00:30:03
In that case, influencing them shouldn't cost you any ego...
Unknown2009-01-18 00:31:16
QUOTE (Xenthos @ Jan 18 2009, 10:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
In that case, influencing them shouldn't cost you any ego...
Why not? Using any normal attack skill costs mana/ego, its just that with influence there is only the one stat of import.
Edit: I'd be happy to split the cost of each influence attack over mana/ego though like the bard skills. That could make sense.
Unknown2009-01-18 00:32:02
Agreeing with Xenthos.
On a logistics note: Why do we have 3-4 influencing threads. Is it possible to consolidate?
On a logistics note: Why do we have 3-4 influencing threads. Is it possible to consolidate?
Narsrim2009-01-18 00:39:09
I'm going to have to give my official veto.
Influencing is much slower than Bashing because there are no critical attacks. I can rake in experience significantly faster on Astral, Muud, Illithoid Prison, Catacombs of Urlach, etc. because I can blow through the denizens much much faster than I can influence a single Archon. To put this into perspective, I can get over 2500+ essence per linked bull, which I can often take down in a matter of seconds, but at the same time, I get ~800 essence from an Archon, which takes me quite a while to influence (I could post time stamped logs if I cared, but I'm too busy to be troubled).
I really feel Influencing is an inferior process with perks, mainly that it isn't as risky. If it is made more risky, the entire system will need to be re-balanced, and I don't see the point in shifting it in the direction of Bashing when it was intended to be a unique alternative.
Using my tahto to pound a denizen does in fact not cost me any mana/ego. Although to be fair, I have always been able to regenerate the mana loss for using a staff, cudgel, moonburst, etc. Ever try influencing something HUGE like Marani Veloske or Korath? The influence attacks themselves can take upwards of 2000 ego.
Influencing is much slower than Bashing because there are no critical attacks. I can rake in experience significantly faster on Astral, Muud, Illithoid Prison, Catacombs of Urlach, etc. because I can blow through the denizens much much faster than I can influence a single Archon. To put this into perspective, I can get over 2500+ essence per linked bull, which I can often take down in a matter of seconds, but at the same time, I get ~800 essence from an Archon, which takes me quite a while to influence (I could post time stamped logs if I cared, but I'm too busy to be troubled).
I really feel Influencing is an inferior process with perks, mainly that it isn't as risky. If it is made more risky, the entire system will need to be re-balanced, and I don't see the point in shifting it in the direction of Bashing when it was intended to be a unique alternative.
QUOTE (Avaer)
Why not? Using any normal attack skill costs mana/ego, its just that with influence there is only the one stat of import.
Using my tahto to pound a denizen does in fact not cost me any mana/ego. Although to be fair, I have always been able to regenerate the mana loss for using a staff, cudgel, moonburst, etc. Ever try influencing something HUGE like Marani Veloske or Korath? The influence attacks themselves can take upwards of 2000 ego.
Xenthos2009-01-18 00:39:45
QUOTE (Avaer @ Jan 17 2009, 07:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Why not? Using any normal attack skill costs mana/ego, its just that with influence there is only the one stat of import.
Swinging my weapons at a denizen doesn't cost me anything but endurance (and it would be fine if influencing cost some WP). If you're upping the cost for influencing by this much, it should give a little bit back in other areas. It's still a greatly increased cost.
But you also need to add in influencing crits to make it really comparable to hunting NPCs, and then afflictions as well.
Unknown2009-01-18 00:41:15
Also, I want to point out that in the first log there, I'm taking on a creature that is extraordinarily strong, like the normal spawns of Astral.
The existing 'hits' to ego that I take for using my Influence skills are about 200-300 each or so.
Compare that to the health damage alone (even forgetting the complications of afflictions) that an extraordinarily strong creature would be doing.
The existing 'hits' to ego that I take for using my Influence skills are about 200-300 each or so.
Compare that to the health damage alone (even forgetting the complications of afflictions) that an extraordinarily strong creature would be doing.
Unknown2009-01-18 00:43:52
QUOTE (Xenthos @ Jan 18 2009, 10:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Swinging my weapons at a denizen doesn't cost me anything but endurance (and it would be fine if influencing cost some WP). If you're upping the cost for influencing by this much, it should give a little bit back in other areas. It's still a greatly increased cost.
But you also need to add in influencing crits to make it really comparable to hunting NPCs, and then afflictions as well.
But you also need to add in influencing crits to make it really comparable to hunting NPCs, and then afflictions as well.
I certainly wouldn't mind reducing some costs to compensate, that's definitely reasonable. But I do think Influence is just far too easy at the moment. Criticals would be -great-, but I can't justify them being introduced given the ridiculous ease of Influence.
Xenthos2009-01-18 00:44:05
QUOTE (Avaer @ Jan 17 2009, 07:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Also, I want to point out that in the first log there, I'm taking on a creature that is extraordinarily strong, like the normal spawns of Astral.
The existing 'hits' to ego that I take for using my Influence skills are about 200-300 each or so.
Compare that to the health damage alone (even forgetting the complications of afflictions) that an extraordinarily strong creature would be doing.
The existing 'hits' to ego that I take for using my Influence skills are about 200-300 each or so.
Compare that to the health damage alone (even forgetting the complications of afflictions) that an extraordinarily strong creature would be doing.
You're still leaving out criticals, no-cost attacks on the primary survival attribute for hunting attacks (health), and so on.
To the last post: Yes, to get criticals a lot of other things have to change. But increasing the cost like this will also require lots of other things change.
It's either a complete overhaul or leave it as-is, IMO.
Unknown2009-01-18 00:47:53
Please, no. Influencing is already so much more monotonous and boring than bashing is. Do we really have to make it worse? Will this add more substance to the game?
Xenthos2009-01-18 00:49:09
PS: Influencing a crushingly strong mob.
6665h, 5945m, 5717e, 10p, 23630en, 23630w elrxk<>-
6665h, 5945m, 5281e, 10p, 23630en, 23625w lrxk<>-
That is just a bit more than 200. Or even 300.
6665h, 5945m, 5717e, 10p, 23630en, 23630w elrxk<>-
6665h, 5945m, 5281e, 10p, 23630en, 23625w lrxk<>-
That is just a bit more than 200. Or even 300.
Unknown2009-01-18 00:57:38
PPS - Influence a mob with an air of extreme strength:
Influence attacks cost more as the fight progresses. If you go long enough with a low-level mob, it does start to cost a lot, but most of the time that doesn't happen except for the extreme high-level critters. I can see these costs starting at a lower point, but why have hits at all if they never get used? Where is the challenge in influencing?
To be honest, at the moment I hit an alias and go and get a bite to eat and come back when the mob is finished being influenced.
For comparison, attacking a bull (extraordinarily strong):
Now, I don't have much health, so I'm not sure if these attacks do more with scaling, but even I can see there's a big difference there.
CODE
3455h, 4802m, 4826e, 8p, 13189en, 21109w exk<>-<14:828>con king
Hive King Rashepotep has an air of extreme strength.
3455h, 4802m, 4826e, 8p, 13189en, 21109w exk<>-<16:31>analyze king
Hive King Rashepotep has a brave soul. He is currently laidback.
..
3455h, 4627m, 5812e, 10p, 13349en, 20721w exk<>-<49:125>
Keeping up a non-stop patter, you keep wheedling Hive King Rashepotep to give up his worldly goods
to you in a dizzying display of circuitous logic.
Hive King Rashepotep looks up into the sky, pretending you don't exist.
3455h, 4627m, 5197e, 10p, 13349en, 20716w xk<>-<50:484>Â Â
You have recovered equilibrium.
3455h, 4552m, 5319e, 10p, 13369en, 20730w exk<>-<53:906>Â Â
Explaining your abject poverty, you humbly request a little help from Hive King Rashepotep.
Hive King Rashepotep looks up into the sky, pretending you don't exist.
3455h, 4552m, 4797e, 10p, 13389en, 20739w xk<>-<54:968>Â Â
You have recovered equilibrium.
3455h, 4552m, 4797e, 10p, 13389en, 20739w exk<>-<58:328>
You thrust your hand out to Hive King Rashepotep and beg shamelessly.
Hive King Rashepotep looks up into the sky, pretending you don't exist.
3455h, 4552m, 4233e, 10p, 13409en, 20748w xk<>-<59:468>Â Â
You take a drink from an opal vial.
Ah, the soothing bromides help strengthen your ego. (350 sips remain.)
3455h, 4552m, 5244e, 10p, 13409en, 20748w xk<>-<59:687>Â Â
You have recovered equilibrium.
3455h, 4552m, 5244e, 10p, 13429en, 20762w exk<>-<02:859>Â Â
You may drink another health, mana, or bromide potion.
3455h, 4477m, 5366e, 10p, 13429en, 20762w exk<>-<03:843>Â Â
Keeping up a non-stop patter, you keep wheedling Hive King Rashepotep to give up his worldly goods
to you in a dizzying display of circuitous logic.
Hive King Rashepotep looks up into the sky, pretending you don't exist.
3455h, 4477m, 4836e, 10p, 13429en, 20757w xk<>-<04:218>Â Â
You have recovered equilibrium.
3455h, 4477m, 4836e, 10p, 13449en, 20771w exk<>-<07:328>Â Â
Explaining your abject poverty, you humbly request a little help from Hive King Rashepotep.
Hive King Rashepotep looks up into the sky, pretending you don't exist.
3455h, 4477m, 4301e, 10p, 13449en, 20766w xk<>-<08:484>Â Â
You take a drink from an opal vial.
Ah, the soothing bromides help strengthen your ego. (349 sips remain.)
3455h, 4477m, 5312e, 10p, 13449en, 20766w xk<>-<08:703>Â Â
You must regain equilibrium first.
3455h, 4477m, 5312e, 10p, 13469en, 20780w xk<>-<12:968>Â Â
You have recovered equilibrium.
3455h, 4477m, 5312e, 10p, 13469en, 20780w exk<>-<13:296>
Hive King Rashepotep demands of you, "So what do you want?"
Your ego drains as you consider your response.
3455h, 4402m, 4511e, 10p, 13469en, 20780w exk<>-<13:625>Â Â
You may drink another health, mana, or bromide potion.
3455h, 4402m, 4511e, 10p, 13469en, 20780w exk<>-<14:171>
A coruscating wind zephyr trots in with head high, butting you gently with his head.
3455h, 4402m, 4511e, 10p, 13489en, 20794w exk<>-<15:750>Â Â
etc
Hive King Rashepotep has an air of extreme strength.
3455h, 4802m, 4826e, 8p, 13189en, 21109w exk<>-<16:31>analyze king
Hive King Rashepotep has a brave soul. He is currently laidback.
..
3455h, 4627m, 5812e, 10p, 13349en, 20721w exk<>-<49:125>
Keeping up a non-stop patter, you keep wheedling Hive King Rashepotep to give up his worldly goods
to you in a dizzying display of circuitous logic.
Hive King Rashepotep looks up into the sky, pretending you don't exist.
3455h, 4627m, 5197e, 10p, 13349en, 20716w xk<>-<50:484>Â Â
You have recovered equilibrium.
3455h, 4552m, 5319e, 10p, 13369en, 20730w exk<>-<53:906>Â Â
Explaining your abject poverty, you humbly request a little help from Hive King Rashepotep.
Hive King Rashepotep looks up into the sky, pretending you don't exist.
3455h, 4552m, 4797e, 10p, 13389en, 20739w xk<>-<54:968>Â Â
You have recovered equilibrium.
3455h, 4552m, 4797e, 10p, 13389en, 20739w exk<>-<58:328>
You thrust your hand out to Hive King Rashepotep and beg shamelessly.
Hive King Rashepotep looks up into the sky, pretending you don't exist.
3455h, 4552m, 4233e, 10p, 13409en, 20748w xk<>-<59:468>Â Â
You take a drink from an opal vial.
Ah, the soothing bromides help strengthen your ego. (350 sips remain.)
3455h, 4552m, 5244e, 10p, 13409en, 20748w xk<>-<59:687>Â Â
You have recovered equilibrium.
3455h, 4552m, 5244e, 10p, 13429en, 20762w exk<>-<02:859>Â Â
You may drink another health, mana, or bromide potion.
3455h, 4477m, 5366e, 10p, 13429en, 20762w exk<>-<03:843>Â Â
Keeping up a non-stop patter, you keep wheedling Hive King Rashepotep to give up his worldly goods
to you in a dizzying display of circuitous logic.
Hive King Rashepotep looks up into the sky, pretending you don't exist.
3455h, 4477m, 4836e, 10p, 13429en, 20757w xk<>-<04:218>Â Â
You have recovered equilibrium.
3455h, 4477m, 4836e, 10p, 13449en, 20771w exk<>-<07:328>Â Â
Explaining your abject poverty, you humbly request a little help from Hive King Rashepotep.
Hive King Rashepotep looks up into the sky, pretending you don't exist.
3455h, 4477m, 4301e, 10p, 13449en, 20766w xk<>-<08:484>Â Â
You take a drink from an opal vial.
Ah, the soothing bromides help strengthen your ego. (349 sips remain.)
3455h, 4477m, 5312e, 10p, 13449en, 20766w xk<>-<08:703>Â Â
You must regain equilibrium first.
3455h, 4477m, 5312e, 10p, 13469en, 20780w xk<>-<12:968>Â Â
You have recovered equilibrium.
3455h, 4477m, 5312e, 10p, 13469en, 20780w exk<>-<13:296>
Hive King Rashepotep demands of you, "So what do you want?"
Your ego drains as you consider your response.
3455h, 4402m, 4511e, 10p, 13469en, 20780w exk<>-<13:625>Â Â
You may drink another health, mana, or bromide potion.
3455h, 4402m, 4511e, 10p, 13469en, 20780w exk<>-<14:171>
A coruscating wind zephyr trots in with head high, butting you gently with his head.
3455h, 4402m, 4511e, 10p, 13489en, 20794w exk<>-<15:750>Â Â
etc
Influence attacks cost more as the fight progresses. If you go long enough with a low-level mob, it does start to cost a lot, but most of the time that doesn't happen except for the extreme high-level critters. I can see these costs starting at a lower point, but why have hits at all if they never get used? Where is the challenge in influencing?
To be honest, at the moment I hit an alias and go and get a bite to eat and come back when the mob is finished being influenced.
For comparison, attacking a bull (extraordinarily strong):
CODE
3388h, 4848m, 5282e, 10p, 13320en, 21225w exk<>-<46:703>
You play a minor second on an exquisite ravenwood viola and direct the disharmonic notes towards a
hulking three-horned bull.
Blood trickles out of a hulking three-horned bull's ears and from the corners of his eyes.
3388h, 4848m, 5206e, 10p, 13305en, 21200w xk<>-<47:93>Â Â
A hulking three-horned bull paws the ground angrily before charging at you, knocking you to the
ground with a painful crunch.
2825h, 4848m, 5206e, 10p, 13325en, 21214w xkp<>-<48:750>Â Â
In a swift, fluid motion, you spring up from your hands to land crouched on your feet.
2825h, 4848m, 5206e, 10p, 13325en, 21214w xk<>-<48:937>
You take a drink from an amethyst vial.
The potion heals and soothes you. (78 sips remain)
3455h, 4848m, 5206e, 10p, 13325en, 21214w xk<>-<49:187>Â Â
You have recovered equilibrium.
3455h, 4848m, 5206e, 10p, 13325en, 21214w exk<>-<49:687>
You play a minor second on an exquisite ravenwood viola and direct the disharmonic notes towards a
hulking three-horned bull.
Blood trickles out of a hulking three-horned bull's ears and from the corners of his eyes.
3455h, 4848m, 5130e, 10p, 13310en, 21189w xk<>-<50:390>Â Â
You scream in pain as a hulking three-horned bull rakes his horns across your torso.
You twist aside, deflecting part of the attack.
3028h, 4848m, 5130e, 10p, 13310en, 21189w xk<>-<51:765>Â Â
You bleed 44 health.
2984h, 4848m, 5130e, 10p, 13310en, 21189w xk<>-<52:125>Â Â
You may drink another health, mana, or bromide potion.
2984h, 4848m, 5130e, 10p, 13330en, 21203w xk<>-<53:406>Â Â
You have recovered equilibrium.
2984h, 4848m, 5130e, 10p, 13330en, 21203w exk<>-<53:593>
You take a drink from an amethyst vial.
The potion heals and soothes you. (77 sips remain)
3455h, 4848m, 5130e, 10p, 13330en, 21203w exk<>-<53:859>Â Â
You play a minor second on an exquisite ravenwood viola and direct the disharmonic notes towards a
hulking three-horned bull.
Blood trickles out of a hulking three-horned bull's ears and from the corners of his eyes.
3455h, 4848m, 5054e, 10p, 13315en, 21178w xk<>-<54:203>Â Â
You scream in pain as a hulking three-horned bull rakes his horns across your torso.
You twist aside, deflecting part of the attack.
3042h, 4848m, 5054e, 10p, 13315en, 21178w xk<>-<54:765>Â Â
You play a minor second on an exquisite ravenwood viola and direct the disharmonic notes towards a
hulking three-horned bull.
Blood trickles out of a hulking three-horned bull's ears and from the corners of his eyes.
3388h, 4848m, 5206e, 10p, 13305en, 21200w xk<>-<47:93>Â Â
A hulking three-horned bull paws the ground angrily before charging at you, knocking you to the
ground with a painful crunch.
2825h, 4848m, 5206e, 10p, 13325en, 21214w xkp<>-<48:750>Â Â
In a swift, fluid motion, you spring up from your hands to land crouched on your feet.
2825h, 4848m, 5206e, 10p, 13325en, 21214w xk<>-<48:937>
You take a drink from an amethyst vial.
The potion heals and soothes you. (78 sips remain)
3455h, 4848m, 5206e, 10p, 13325en, 21214w xk<>-<49:187>Â Â
You have recovered equilibrium.
3455h, 4848m, 5206e, 10p, 13325en, 21214w exk<>-<49:687>
You play a minor second on an exquisite ravenwood viola and direct the disharmonic notes towards a
hulking three-horned bull.
Blood trickles out of a hulking three-horned bull's ears and from the corners of his eyes.
3455h, 4848m, 5130e, 10p, 13310en, 21189w xk<>-<50:390>Â Â
You scream in pain as a hulking three-horned bull rakes his horns across your torso.
You twist aside, deflecting part of the attack.
3028h, 4848m, 5130e, 10p, 13310en, 21189w xk<>-<51:765>Â Â
You bleed 44 health.
2984h, 4848m, 5130e, 10p, 13310en, 21189w xk<>-<52:125>Â Â
You may drink another health, mana, or bromide potion.
2984h, 4848m, 5130e, 10p, 13330en, 21203w xk<>-<53:406>Â Â
You have recovered equilibrium.
2984h, 4848m, 5130e, 10p, 13330en, 21203w exk<>-<53:593>
You take a drink from an amethyst vial.
The potion heals and soothes you. (77 sips remain)
3455h, 4848m, 5130e, 10p, 13330en, 21203w exk<>-<53:859>Â Â
You play a minor second on an exquisite ravenwood viola and direct the disharmonic notes towards a
hulking three-horned bull.
Blood trickles out of a hulking three-horned bull's ears and from the corners of his eyes.
3455h, 4848m, 5054e, 10p, 13315en, 21178w xk<>-<54:203>Â Â
You scream in pain as a hulking three-horned bull rakes his horns across your torso.
You twist aside, deflecting part of the attack.
3042h, 4848m, 5054e, 10p, 13315en, 21178w xk<>-<54:765>Â Â
Now, I don't have much health, so I'm not sure if these attacks do more with scaling, but even I can see there's a big difference there.
Narsrim2009-01-18 00:58:10
QUOTE (Avaer @ Jan 17 2009, 07:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Also, I want to point out that in the first log there, I'm taking on a creature that is extraordinarily strong, like the normal spawns of Astral.
The existing 'hits' to ego that I take for using my Influence skills are about 200-300 each or so.
Compare that to the health damage alone (even forgetting the complications of afflictions) that an extraordinarily strong creature would be doing.
The existing 'hits' to ego that I take for using my Influence skills are about 200-300 each or so.
Compare that to the health damage alone (even forgetting the complications of afflictions) that an extraordinarily strong creature would be doing.
An unlinked Astral bull does about 200 damage to me per hit. I have 9000+ health.
Unknown2009-01-18 01:01:48
QUOTE (Narsrim @ Jan 18 2009, 10:58 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
An unlinked Astral bull does about 200 damage to me per hit. I have 9000+ health.
Good gods, I wish I had your defences/artifacts/whatever.
Xenthos2009-01-18 01:03:11
QUOTE (Avaer @ Jan 17 2009, 07:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Now, I don't have much health, so I'm not sure if these attacks do more with scaling, but even I can see there's a big difference there.
Your first influencing attack:
5812->5197. 615 damage.
First bull attack:
3388->2825. 563 damage.
As well as being able to stack defenses against NPC attacks. No, mob damage does not scale.
Unknown2009-01-18 01:04:33
QUOTE (Xenthos @ Jan 18 2009, 11:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Your first influencing attack:
5812->5197. 615 damage.
First bull attack:
3388->2825. 563 damage.
As well as being able to stack defenses against NPC attacks.
5812->5197. 615 damage.
First bull attack:
3388->2825. 563 damage.
As well as being able to stack defenses against NPC attacks.
The king is two levels of strength above the bull. The bulls compare to the astrologers in the first post.
Xenthos2009-01-18 01:06:38
QUOTE (Avaer @ Jan 17 2009, 08:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The king is two levels of strength above the bull. The bulls compare to the astrologers in the first post.
The strength doesn't necessarily mean a huge amount in terms of observed damage. And I'm still not seeing the "major difference" you're talking about with those numbers. It's about the same damage either way with your *base* attack, without even adding on the extra amount each time from it counterattacking. Also while being a class with very little DMP.
Narsrim2009-01-18 01:07:55
Go probe Selene or Luna. You'll note their "strength" is less than that of a Dreaming Manifestation. It's really a messed up system that is fairly old school Achaea with no practical implications in Lusternia.
Narsrim2009-01-18 01:08:43
QUOTE (Avaer @ Jan 17 2009, 08:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Good gods, I wish I had your defences/artifacts/whatever.
*flex*
I bet Thoros would actually take less damage as a Brood Viscanti Ur'guard with putrefaction, full plate, full defenses, truefavor, etc. He can also get more health with surge!
Unknown2009-01-18 01:11:08
QUOTE (Xenthos @ Jan 18 2009, 11:06 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The strength doesn't necessarily mean a huge amount in terms of observed damage. And I'm still not seeing the "major difference" you're talking about with those numbers. It's about the same damage either way with your *base* attack, without even adding on the extra amount each time from it counterattacking. Also while being a class with very little DMP.
I'd try attacking the king to get an estimate of the damage he does, but I suspect it would near-instakill me.
My point is that Influence as is currently realized has:
- no challenge
- no risk (except from lag)
- little dependence on level
- nowhere to go at the highest tiers
