Suggesting a new skill(s) for Music that Celina reminded me about (might already be a suggestion about this).

Basically, because of the fact that Bards are mainly damage killers, and because they do almost totally magic damage, it means that fighting a krokani (for example) is an exercise in near futility. Deathsong is not worth mentioning here; it's downright impossible against certain people.

The ideas. Either:
A skill in music that allows for the changing of music damage type to 50% something else of your choosing (so it'd be 50% magic and 50% fire for example).
New skills highish in the music specs that act as a new minorsecond-type attack. Obviously, they'd vary depending on spec, so Necroscream would get maybe 50% magic, 25% poison, 25% fire whereas Starhymn gets 50% magic, 25% cold, 25% asphyx. Different flavour text/deathsight/etc also, of course, since they're basically a bard staff/symbol/cudgel type thing going on. Maybe reduce minorsecond damage and increase the new skill damage a bit to reflect the skill it takes to get them?

Comments, etc.

What if damage-changing rune artifacts worked on instruments?

I like the guild specific attacks, though I'd just make it 50% magic 50% poison for mag, 50% fire for cantors, cold for spiritsingers and aspyhx for harbingers.

Basically like staff but in music. Same damage formula, but this is a way to get around the ample magic dmp/resistances that exists. As damage killers , it's impossible to damage kill a demi warrior outright 1v1, much less one with high DMP or resistances. No damage buff, just a new damage type.

edit: word vomit fixed

I'd prefer the extra flavor from guild-specific damage attacks.
It's a bit tedious to see that Cantors and Cacophony have the same attack.
Doesn't really help to reinforce the fact that the two are, or should be, diametrically opposed.

Plus: artifacts shouldn't be necessary to participate in combat.
inb4warriors.

It seems a similar problem to that of warriors though, and cutting/blunt resistance. I'd be happy with guild-specific damage types, keeping in mind that certain damage types are much more valuable than others.

For instance, if you sum the levels of positive (resistance) and negative (weakness) racial modifiers to each damage type, and don't factor in the exceptionally high proportion of the specialized races, you get:

Cold: 9
Electricity: 0
Fire: -13
Poison: 8
Asphyxiation: 3
Psychic: 16
Magic: 8
Blunt: 13
Cutting: 15

That is, there are a lot of races weak to fire, not many weak to psychic (in fact none) or asphyxiation (again, none), and quite a few resistant to poison and cold.

Damage types are negotiable, of course. This is one of one of the reasons why 'tuning' so you can change damage might be better, but it hasn't got the flavor that bards really lack.

Also: the warrior cutting/blunt thing isn't really too relevant, though, since a) not many warriors go for damagekills b) they do damage AND wounds/afflictions at the same time.

You have to consider that no one actually plays merian/mugwump/furrikin etc that actually have the fire/elec weaknesses. As well as hold breath stopping asphyx and the uber (60+ dmp I think) poison resists some guilds like BT can get. Sure the specifics would have to be ironed out and balanced...and I doubt the admin will change anything, but still...it's a nice idea for a buff and a little variety.

On one hand, I rather like this idea because having been a Cantor, I understand that it's impossible to take down Furrikin Moondancers or Krokani warriors.

On the other hand, I rather dislike this idea because I cannot imagine Xiel having a 50% magic, 50% psychic (or whatever else) minorsecond.

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I also think Moondancers could make a similar argument. With all the passive curing going around these days it's rather difficult to Toadcurse someone who knows what they doing. Moonburst is their other option, and it happens to be 100% magic too (and slower than Minorsecond).

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In the end, I think the most appropriate solution would be taking a look at racial resistances. A level 3 resistance/penalty to a given damage type is a 30% reduction/penalty that does not factor into DMP. That's HUGE. Too huge.

This I agree with.

I still want my flavor bashing skill, though.

While I sort of see your point, you're saying that you have trouble killing certain people because of their resistances to magic damage. I have trouble killing certain people because of their high health, passive healing, etc, etc.

A certain amount of skills and/or artifacts are required in order to compensate for your weaknesses (or your enemy's lack of them). I say you can attach the damage altering runes to your weapons to modify your MinorSecond, and I don't like the idea that you can change your damage from one type to another at your own will and at such a low cost.

Hmm, true about Xiel. Why do things scale so dramatically.

A lot of the problem with Xiel is the admin continue to allow the dmp bypass and passive damage and super high int/cha spec race, while the other bard specs learn to deal without.



I don't understand this at all. You don't think bards should have a different damage source because you, a warrior with entirely different kill methods and strategies, have to buy runes to accomplish the same thing? Bad argument.

I think it should be a runefor 100 credits 25% each. for all non-melee based weapons.

You had trouble killing Ariatas (in fact, she killed you) when she was level 30 with inept combat and resilience. Bringing your personal skill into the equation doesn't really prove anything.

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The point raised is that with racial resistances, it's quite easy for minorsecond damage to be so low, you can't out pace sipping/berry/scroll under the best of circumstances. As a result, there is no feasible method to kill a target as you largely don't have a means to prevent sipping. This is why Cantors (and to a lesser extent Cacophony) fail so miserably.

The last time I fought Sarrasri (Lucidian Moondancer Astrologist, high level) as a Cantor, I did something like 500 damage out of her 5000+ health. Even if I somehow shut her down entirely, it'd take 30 seconds of attacks to kill her. Of course, that didn't happen. She just tanked me forever.

In the instance of a Harbinger though, I would think he or she should be focusing more on using aurics to kill. Spiritsingers have Wildarrane to help kill. Cantors and Cacophony, however, are just screwed.

Damage from music skills is either the magic based minor second or fixed damage from the various vices, barbs, and spikes. Maybe it's just because i'm viscanti and my ms tickles but i'm knida meh on this.

Sorry, but I didn't realize I was proving anything. I was giving my opinion, nothing more. I responded to the notion that artifacts shouldn't be required to fight. In fact, they're not required, but coming from the archetype which requires the most artifacts to fight well, I find it laughable that bards shouldn't need artifacts to alter their damage types.

I'm a lousy fighter, even with all my skills, roughly 100 artifacts, and a fair combat system. Sue me.

Well, I found your tone to be somewhat snide. I may have read into it incorrectly, and if so, I apologize. That being said, I disagree with your assertions.

Geb was a fantastic combatant who could kill just about everyone in Lusternia with an bashing katana that had no artifact runes attached. He proved time and time again that personal skill is the determining factor. Ceren proves this too. None-the-less, I don't think this tangent has anything to do with the problem raised:

Bards absolutely rape races with magic weaknesses. I recall 2-shotting Revan as a level 90+ Illithoid. Bards absolutely suck against races with magic resistances. I think it's worth addressing without considering artifacts.

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Disclaimer: Spiritsingers are so much better than every other bard specialization this doesn't really apply to them. Harbingers likewise have the auric/nightshade blues/minor sixth route. Cantors and Cacophony have nothing.