Llandros2009-01-31 15:25:52
In Mag it's pretty standard that little ones need a hand with the planar and power quests. The influence quest is crazy hard though. It took me well over half an hour when I transfered to mag and was a bard with high cha.
I created an alt in celest a few weeks ago. I graduated with honours in about 15 minutes.
I created an alt in celest a few weeks ago. I graduated with honours in about 15 minutes.
Unknown2009-02-01 03:27:18
QUOTE (Lendren @ Jan 31 2009, 08:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The main problem here is just that all the quests used to be in one big CGHELP QUESTIONS and then we split off the five quests into their own files because it was too cumbersome. The trouble now is if you start in one of the quest-specific ones without reading CGHELP QUESTIONS which has all the basic information for all of them. I just added a footnote to the five quest ones referring back to the 'parent' scroll.
If you have any other questions you think should be in there, please let me know. We've tried to catch all the frequently asked questions (without actually giving away the quests, and still making you have to go do stuff and learn from it along the way).
The nut resetting is very frustrating, and we can't do much about that. It would be nice (hint hint!) if the reset time on it was reset every time you got one of the answers (in fact I think I'll IDEA that). But if it's any consolation, the second time through goes so much faster. (I added something to CGHELP HISTORY about that, too.)
We're eager to improve the scrolls, but we need you to tell us what improvements you'd like to see! Otherwise we don't even know there's a problem.
If you have any other questions you think should be in there, please let me know. We've tried to catch all the frequently asked questions (without actually giving away the quests, and still making you have to go do stuff and learn from it along the way).
The nut resetting is very frustrating, and we can't do much about that. It would be nice (hint hint!) if the reset time on it was reset every time you got one of the answers (in fact I think I'll IDEA that). But if it's any consolation, the second time through goes so much faster. (I added something to CGHELP HISTORY about that, too.)
We're eager to improve the scrolls, but we need you to tell us what improvements you'd like to see! Otherwise we don't even know there's a problem.
Oh, I see. After reading this here, then going in game and reading everything you suggested, it doesn't seem near as impossible as I originally thought. The only problem I see is new players knowing where to look to find the information. If they're anything like I was when I tried them, they'll look at each quest cghelp file alone without knowing to look elsewhere. I think it's a great idea to put a footnote in each of them sending them to cghelp questions. It could also help if someone would put a quick mention of cghelp directions in each of them as well.
Thanks for adding the cghelp questions to them though and I hope I wasn't offensive with this thread. I was trying not to be.
Lendren2009-02-01 04:34:04
No offense, it's good to hear what's not working so we can fix it. It's easy for us to miss these things sometimes.
There was a reference to CGHELP DIRECTIONS in the Geography scroll already; I've added one to the History scroll as well.
There was a reference to CGHELP DIRECTIONS in the Geography scroll already; I've added one to the History scroll as well.
Shaddus2009-02-01 04:36:15
QUOTE (Eventru @ Jan 30 2009, 11:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You forgot the ball pit, the reconstruction of the silver monkey statue and the infamous temple guardians.
You, sir, win.
I even think of that when I play Kingdom of Loathing. Classic.
Shaddus2009-02-01 04:37:52
QUOTE (Llandros @ Jan 31 2009, 09:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
In Mag it's pretty standard that little ones need a hand with the planar and power quests. The influence quest is crazy hard though. It took me well over half an hour when I transfered to mag and was a bard with high cha.
I created an alt in celest a few weeks ago. I graduated with honours in about 15 minutes.
I created an alt in celest a few weeks ago. I graduated with honours in about 15 minutes.
QFT.
The Celest influence quest is quite easy. The Mag one is quite hard, and I've seen novices merely not do it, because it takes them a while to get the staff, and then once they find the head, the staff decays.
Shiri2009-02-01 04:56:40
Julie: NP.
All I can say is that in my experience it's impossible to get every relevant bit of information in such a place that every novice is going to read what they need in the right order without getting confused and wondering where things are. Lendren's done a pretty good job with the scrolls, the pixie quest is just impossible for us to deal with, and he's covered the history thing.
All I can say is that in my experience it's impossible to get every relevant bit of information in such a place that every novice is going to read what they need in the right order without getting confused and wondering where things are. Lendren's done a pretty good job with the scrolls, the pixie quest is just impossible for us to deal with, and he's covered the history thing.
Everiine2009-02-01 05:05:50
QUOTE (Shiri @ Jan 31 2009, 11:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Julie: NP.
All I can say is that in my experience it's impossible to get every relevant bit of information in such a place that every novice is going to read what they need in the right order without getting confused and wondering where things are. Lendren's done a pretty good job with the scrolls, the pixie quest is just impossible for us to deal with, and he's covered the history thing.
All I can say is that in my experience it's impossible to get every relevant bit of information in such a place that every novice is going to read what they need in the right order without getting confused and wondering where things are. Lendren's done a pretty good job with the scrolls, the pixie quest is just impossible for us to deal with, and he's covered the history thing.
QFT. I can't count the number of Serenguard scrolls and books I've rewritten over the years in attempts to make them easier to understand, to streamline the reading and make it simple to find the next scroll. You do the best you can, then hope they ask for help when they are confused.
Unknown2009-02-01 05:15:12
I can certainly understand that it's hard to get everything neatly organized when there's simply so much information for new players to comprehend. I honestly think you've done a great job. I've found, in other muds I've briefly tried, that after playing for a while, you basically forget what it's like to be a new player and it can be hard to relate. Especially in terms of what goes through their minds when trying to get accustomed to the game.
Really though, that's nothing time and experience itself won't fix. It also seems that Lusternia has a huge learning curve as opposed to other IRE games. Absolutely everything is different. Which isn't a bad thing at all. It just takes longer to figure it all out.
Overall though, I'm truly enjoying the game. The players that I've spoken with so far have been nothing but helpful and friendly. They're all the time asking if newbies need help. That simply doesn't happen elsewhere. I actually had a couple players hunt me down just to see if I needed help with Kata forms and such. Grade A for a great player base.
Really though, that's nothing time and experience itself won't fix. It also seems that Lusternia has a huge learning curve as opposed to other IRE games. Absolutely everything is different. Which isn't a bad thing at all. It just takes longer to figure it all out.
Overall though, I'm truly enjoying the game. The players that I've spoken with so far have been nothing but helpful and friendly. They're all the time asking if newbies need help. That simply doesn't happen elsewhere. I actually had a couple players hunt me down just to see if I needed help with Kata forms and such. Grade A for a great player base.
Shiri2009-02-01 05:20:59
Part of it is that the collegium system is so much better than the crap novice support the other IREs have, and it makes it -easier- for people to check if you need to help (and not to feel alone.)
Prisch2009-02-01 13:20:16
Lusternia is definitely the best IRE MUD in my eyes.
Lendren2009-02-01 14:45:25
We're always trying to resist the temptation to cram everything into the scroll. If you look at the help files in any IRE game for any guild that's been around a long time, they tend to be very very long, full up of things that came up three times five RL years ago and someone said "we need to put that in a help file". It's an understandable temptation in the moment, but after a while it leads to the scrolls being way too cumbersome. When it gets too big and intimidating, a help file actually is less helpful because people won't read it. Especially a brand new player who needs it the most, but who probably just finished reading a hundred other help files and is heartily sick of it and wants to get on to something fun! Being exhaustive can be counter-productive.
We also have to avoid the idea that we have to teach the newcomers everything they need all at once on day one; it's perfectly okay and quite beneficial to intentionally leave out some of what they'll need to know, and save it for days 2 and up.
Finally, some things are left out intentionally to encourage people to use CGT to ask questions, because learning to ask questions is also an important lesson for day one.
We also have to avoid the idea that we have to teach the newcomers everything they need all at once on day one; it's perfectly okay and quite beneficial to intentionally leave out some of what they'll need to know, and save it for days 2 and up.
Finally, some things are left out intentionally to encourage people to use CGT to ask questions, because learning to ask questions is also an important lesson for day one.
