Probably the same place I do. Combat experience and guild-hopping.

No, separate command

I'd be fine with toning banshee down and upping toadcurse if that's the issue here. I'd rather have to lash a few more times rather than essentially have no method of instantly killing people. In the times I've sparred/fought people, the toads run away a good deal of the time. When they don't immediately escape, it's because I'm in a group and someone else got the stomp.

So yeah, please tweak. Either make them unable to run so fast, or unable to run, or just use Asmodea's suggestion.

I find myself actually agreeing with Thoros... Shamarah was able to get my mana very low very quickly with banshee, lash, and succumb. He didn't need choke, and my sipping + scroll + sparkleberry just wasn't cutting it. Before you fix one, you really need to fix the other.

Uh...you can't have lash and succumb. When was this? He hasn't played in ages so that might have been pre-nerf succumb (which was absolutely crazy.)

Right. Sorry. Lash is in Moon. Got caught up in the previous posts, I guess.

It was pre-nerf Succumb, but the fact that there are still two passive mana drains still spells trouble to me.

Let's not forget Shadowdancers also have redcap and barghest to drain mana.

I knew there was something else I was missing. Thanks, Narsrim!

I'm just curious, is damage kill viable for Shadowdancers?

For especially an astrologer, you bet. That is, if you get good meteors.

EDIT: And manage not to die before you can pull a 5-sphere meteor off. And time it with your fae/beast/whatever else. I usually end up dying rather quickly against warriors/monks though so

Ah, yes, I've forgotten that Astrologers now get meteors.

I think thats bull.
Give wiccans a more viable "1 hit"

You aren't considering the fact that when someone sees you quicken, they either shield or leave.

The effects of quicken is very, very short.

edit: Absolving someone is not easy, btw. Getting someone's mana below half without coordinating with a mage/other guardian is very difficult, and impossible on some people.

You're also forgetting Pixie & Pooka.

To Ciaran/Asmodea/Etc:
Wiccans get *all* of their Fae at a time, whereas Guardians get their single Angel/Demon. This Angel/Demon has to be invested with a single attack at a time (Celestines don't even get ordering, if the Demon is invested with it they don't do something else), unless power is spent to make them do two (for a short period of time).

Toadcurse, as designed, is not an insta-kill. As evidenced by the fact that it does not actually kill. It is more along the lines of inquisition: It removes all of your defenses and leaves you very vulnerable to a kill option.

The only real upgrade I can see being acceptable with the Fae as-is is making it so dex doesn't up the ability of a toad to dodge-- unless Fae are combined into a single entity and you can only choose to use 1 of their attacks at a time. If that's the direction you really want to go, though... I guess we could consider it, though I don't see why you'd want to nerf yourselves like that.

As much as I'm for buffing Wiccans, I think that Toadcurse is fine as is. Yes, it's hard to pull off. However, Thoros and Xenthos bring up fair points behind Fae behind being as decent as they are. I would say that toad dodging could probably get toned down, as it's kind of silly and it tics -very- often though I think it should stay. Toadcurse is not, by design, meant to be an instakill.

Thoros. Moonburst cannot damage kill, lay off the pipe. Shadowdancers, on the other hand, with Shadow Steal and Scourge have an easier time damage killing.

EDIT: Plus, Ciaran. You have Succumb, dude. You should have zero issue draining mana for curse. Moonies actually have a harder time because we're torn between actively sticking aeon/sleep/and lash. Not to mention the eq recovs for each leave a wide upon oppurtunity for an enemy to wake and cure. It's about a good 4 seconds for each. Unless the person using Sleep is using Hexen Palm. Otherwise, it's longer with Sleep enchant.

Can toads escape through warrior/beast block?

Yes.

Moonburst does very good damage, and the only reason wiccans don't damage kill is because they don't try.

Test/confirm this please.

Edit: On further testing, wiccan drain -is- better than Nihilist drain, that's difficult to contest.

Both are easily outpaced without some sort of slowing effect like aeon, or other cure hindering.

Now, I'm not sure how I could test it, but I wish I could know who can lock down curing better. I think SD probably is the best, then I imagine MD. But when we get into this sort of comparison we have to take into account sacrifice/inquisition, since wiccans basically have to toadcurse anyone who is mildly tanky and competent.

Erm, the information I posted is just general knowledge. If you don't die, it's not an insta-kill. Afflictions hinder curing. Etc. Etc.



Sounds Familiar.


Also: Melville did 1200 moonburst with 17 int. Damage isn't bad at all.