QUOTE (daganev @ Feb 20 2009, 06:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
lastly, I'm curious what Shaddus's "oh crap" comment was about at the end of yesterday.
Because I was hoping Harkux wasn't scum, but she turned out to be scum. And I wasted my item.
At least Furien has it. But if Harkux gave it to her, is Furien scum, or did we decide she wasn't?
QUOTE (daganev @ Feb 20 2009, 04:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
nonsense, Shiri is still alive. 
And with the amount of info we uncovered yesterday, I doubt people have little to talk about.
And with the amount of info we uncovered yesterday, I doubt people have little to talk about.
Well at least until some of the talkers come around. Or maybe another newbie, us newbies like to talk a lot.
QUOTE (Shaddus Mes'ard @ Feb 20 2009, 04:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Because I was hoping Harkux wasn't scum, but she turned out to be scum. And I wasted my item.
At least Furien has it. But if Harkux gave it to her, is Furien scum, or did we decide she wasn't?
At least Furien has it. But if Harkux gave it to her, is Furien scum, or did we decide she wasn't?
I think we decided she wasn't, but we'll see what happens.
QUOTE (Shaddus Mes'ard @ Feb 20 2009, 04:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Because I was hoping Harkux wasn't scum, but she turned out to be scum. And I wasted my item.
At least Furien has it. But if Harkux gave it to her, is Furien scum, or did we decide she wasn't?
At least Furien has it. But if Harkux gave it to her, is Furien scum, or did we decide she wasn't?
good question.
Im not sure what Furien's "what were you saying Daganev?
" was supposed to mean.Harkux did give Furien the heart, and Furien did claim to also have light arrows (which I'm sure Sadhyra can confirm I used on her), but Furien is also Zelda/Sheik so who knows. (Harkux may have had a moment of clarity and decided to try to "Frame" someone as being mafia, or she might have still been in a "I lost
" state and given the heart to save a mafia member.)QUOTE (daganev @ Feb 20 2009, 04:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
(Harkux may have had a moment of clarity and decided to try to "Frame" someone as being mafia, or she might have still been in a "I lost " state and given the heart to save a mafia member.)
" state and given the heart to save a mafia member.)Or someone she thought would become a traitor later. It's hard to tell.
Sorry, I don't think I have my notes with me.
Smash Smashball even though I know I won't get anything
Alright, catching Harkux was a huge boon for us because she was essentially a random target and this makes it much easier to peer at the people who were supporting/opposing the bandwagon on her from the beginning. I'm going to guess Daganev is probably town (or if he's scum, he's clearly on a different scum faction than Harkux) so here are the posts that are opposing the Harkux lynch or favoring a Daganev lynch:
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This post seems like a kind of passive-aggressive defense of Harkux. Rather than trying to refute Daganev's arguments (which would actually probably make Narsrim look even more suspicious, because he would seem overly defensive), he just decides to vote Daganev. Narsrim is a pretty bright guy and Daganev's logic was pretty simple here, especially for Daganev, so it seems like Narsrim is being thick on purpose. Of course, this alone doesn't necessarily point to him being scum - and, admittedly, this post probably wouldn't have drawn my attention at all had Harkux not been killed and turned up scum - but it certainly comes across as suspicious. Here is another shifty Narsrim post:
Adds nothing to the discussion, contributes no reasons for his feeling that Tekora's explanations are weak, throws in a FOS on someone who was actively urging for a Harkux lynch. And, again:
Pretty much the same thing here.
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Kiriwe continues to be extremely suspicious. After arguing in an oddly vociferous manner for a no-lynch even after Shiri and I explained why it's a terrible thing for the town to do (perhaps she hoped to force a no-lynch to save Harkux?) Kiriwe suddenly decides to switch her vote to Daganev after a few other people have begun to vote for him. Here's another shifty Kiriwe post:
Ridiculously defensive of Harkux's noob mistakes (which did, of course, turn out to be genuine scum tells) and appears to be trying to overcome logic by throwing little objections at it. This post, along with many others of Kiriwe's, just set off my scumdar like mad. Why is she being this absurdly defensive of someone who has posted only around 5-6 times by this point? Later, she does eventually shift her vote to Harkux, but not until it is clear that the momentum is swinging rapidly towards a Harkux lynch (I don't generally consider the second half of the final votes on a day 1 lynch to be good indicators of scumminess one way or another unless there is something particularly odd about them).
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Furien already seemed a little shifty and this seems like an attempt to info-mine by piggybacking on what seems to be a small amount of momentum gathering on Dag. Like Kiriwe, he doesn't shift his vote until it's clear that the momentum is swinging towards Harkux, and he doesn't really give any motive that I noticed for doing so. Oh, and when it starts looking like Harkux might have a chance to survive this whole ordeal with the heart container thing, he posts this...
... and then switches back to voting Harkux when the heart container is broken. Hmm...
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My goodness is this an overly emphatic post. Here Sadhyra comes across as attempting to quibble with small points against Harkux's lynch while deliberately glossing over the actual reasons for it. This post comes across as especially silly when you consider that scum don't usually need to manipulate the town into lynching a townie on day 1. However Sadhyra has made no posts of substance since this one.
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Oh, and of course there's Shaddus with the whole heart container thing. But it's Shaddus, after all, and he is so erratic that it's difficult to judge from that sort of thing.
Anyway, my primary suspect right now is Kiriwe, I still think she's the scummiest person in the game at the moment - she defended Harkux and all her posts make my scumdar go nuts so I'm going to Vote: Kiriwe. Narsrim is next on my list of suspicious targets and I do intend to go after him especially if Kiriwe comes up scum (so prepare yourself, Narsrim!) FOS: Narsrim
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QUOTE (Narsrim @ Feb 18 2009, 10:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Daganev's logic is difficult to follow. It's always hard to tell if he's being intentionally convoluted or not, but overall, I'd rather just not deal with it.
Vote Daganev
Vote Daganev
This post seems like a kind of passive-aggressive defense of Harkux. Rather than trying to refute Daganev's arguments (which would actually probably make Narsrim look even more suspicious, because he would seem overly defensive), he just decides to vote Daganev. Narsrim is a pretty bright guy and Daganev's logic was pretty simple here, especially for Daganev, so it seems like Narsrim is being thick on purpose. Of course, this alone doesn't necessarily point to him being scum - and, admittedly, this post probably wouldn't have drawn my attention at all had Harkux not been killed and turned up scum - but it certainly comes across as suspicious. Here is another shifty Narsrim post:
QUOTE (Narsrim @ Feb 19 2009, 03:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
F.O.S. Tekora
I'm not a huge fan of the "cause I said so" logic. I'm not sure about Fania, but your explanations are weak at best.
I'm not a huge fan of the "cause I said so" logic. I'm not sure about Fania, but your explanations are weak at best.
Adds nothing to the discussion, contributes no reasons for his feeling that Tekora's explanations are weak, throws in a FOS on someone who was actively urging for a Harkux lynch. And, again:
QUOTE (Narsrim @ Feb 19 2009, 07:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Still convinced you can prove you aren't scum with strange, circle arguments?
Pretty much the same thing here.
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QUOTE (Kiriwe y'Kaliath @ Feb 18 2009, 10:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
unless he's scum!
Unvote Vote: Daganev
Unvote Vote: Daganev
Kiriwe continues to be extremely suspicious. After arguing in an oddly vociferous manner for a no-lynch even after Shiri and I explained why it's a terrible thing for the town to do (perhaps she hoped to force a no-lynch to save Harkux?) Kiriwe suddenly decides to switch her vote to Daganev after a few other people have begun to vote for him. Here's another shifty Kiriwe post:
QUOTE (Kiriwe y'Kaliath @ Feb 19 2009, 12:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I still don't understand how any and every mistake is a noob scum tell.
Everybody makes mistakes. Including noob townies, and experienced whatever.
Saying "oh, noob townies wouldn't do this, they'd do that" isn't always true. It might be what you would do, but it's not true for everybody. People think differently!
Also, that 1 hour to convince me you're not scum thing is totally bogus.
Not everybody checks these forums five times every hour. Also, how would she know that you were talking to her? And agreeing with faulty logic isn't falling for a trap, it's agreeing with faulty logic. Two different things.
I'm keeping my vote on Daganev.
Everybody makes mistakes. Including noob townies, and experienced whatever.
Saying "oh, noob townies wouldn't do this, they'd do that" isn't always true. It might be what you would do, but it's not true for everybody. People think differently!
Also, that 1 hour to convince me you're not scum thing is totally bogus.
Not everybody checks these forums five times every hour. Also, how would she know that you were talking to her? And agreeing with faulty logic isn't falling for a trap, it's agreeing with faulty logic. Two different things.
I'm keeping my vote on Daganev.
Ridiculously defensive of Harkux's noob mistakes (which did, of course, turn out to be genuine scum tells) and appears to be trying to overcome logic by throwing little objections at it. This post, along with many others of Kiriwe's, just set off my scumdar like mad. Why is she being this absurdly defensive of someone who has posted only around 5-6 times by this point? Later, she does eventually shift her vote to Harkux, but not until it is clear that the momentum is swinging rapidly towards a Harkux lynch (I don't generally consider the second half of the final votes on a day 1 lynch to be good indicators of scumminess one way or another unless there is something particularly odd about them).
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QUOTE (Furien @ Feb 18 2009, 10:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I was thinking the 'trap' was an actual power he used last night, but I guess I'm wrong. Since you're so insistent that my role or allegiance doesn't check out, why don't we hear a bit of yours? Vote: Daganev
Furien already seemed a little shifty and this seems like an attempt to info-mine by piggybacking on what seems to be a small amount of momentum gathering on Dag. Like Kiriwe, he doesn't shift his vote until it's clear that the momentum is swinging towards Harkux, and he doesn't really give any motive that I noticed for doing so. Oh, and when it starts looking like Harkux might have a chance to survive this whole ordeal with the heart container thing, he posts this...
QUOTE (Furien @ Feb 19 2009, 08:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
UNVOTE
Give her one last chance to respond?
Give her one last chance to respond?
... and then switches back to voting Harkux when the heart container is broken. Hmm...
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QUOTE (Sadhyra @ Feb 19 2009, 11:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
A very good breakdown analysis of Daganev's chronology was given several pages back. I suggest reading that. If Daganev is as great a player as people are claiming, I doubt he'd make random timing jumps and slips as his quoted, timestamped posts show him to do. He manipulated Harkux into role-revealing, and then later used the thin claim of a "trap" to cover for this and attempt to manipulate townies into a lynch.
Tekora's logic as to why we should lynch Harkux is also quite fallable. If Harkux is innocent, Daganev can merely claim the numbers defence - "there are so many more Town than Scum! It was an honest mistake!" Odds say that Harkux is innocent, so odds are lynching him won't reveal diddly squat.
Vote: Daganev
Tekora's logic as to why we should lynch Harkux is also quite fallable. If Harkux is innocent, Daganev can merely claim the numbers defence - "there are so many more Town than Scum! It was an honest mistake!" Odds say that Harkux is innocent, so odds are lynching him won't reveal diddly squat.
Vote: Daganev
My goodness is this an overly emphatic post. Here Sadhyra comes across as attempting to quibble with small points against Harkux's lynch while deliberately glossing over the actual reasons for it. This post comes across as especially silly when you consider that scum don't usually need to manipulate the town into lynching a townie on day 1. However Sadhyra has made no posts of substance since this one.
---
Oh, and of course there's Shaddus with the whole heart container thing. But it's Shaddus, after all, and he is so erratic that it's difficult to judge from that sort of thing.
Anyway, my primary suspect right now is Kiriwe, I still think she's the scummiest person in the game at the moment - she defended Harkux and all her posts make my scumdar go nuts so I'm going to Vote: Kiriwe. Narsrim is next on my list of suspicious targets and I do intend to go after him especially if Kiriwe comes up scum (so prepare yourself, Narsrim!) FOS: Narsrim
