It's not a black and white matter. If I were Thoros, I'd point out this was a group combat situation, and it's just not feasible to balance out most skills for groups. I'd likewise point out that Gregori could have perhaps hid in trees and treebaned people selectively before calling in allies (it's really hard to get a druid out of trees and/or fight them in trees). You could also throw into the mix all sorts of other situations where instant death is a possibility: What if Thoros/Romero/Esano were all telepaths... two people could psychicvamp while the third mindbursted for an instant kill regardless of ego/curing/etc. What if the three of them were bonecrushers. It could have resulted (easily) in an instant pipelock/smitedown.

This isn't to say that sacrifice/trample isn't silly, but if there are lots of silly things in existence, it does beg the question as to why this is 'worse.'

Didn't leave because it was Lisaera's god realm.

Gregori = Avatar of Lisaera

Swore to her that he would die to defend her whatever needs defending, yadda yadda.

To clarify: It's easy to use a smokescreen to dissuade a valid point when you are standing in a room filled with smoke. It's true this is lame. It's true this needs fixed. However, it's also true there are some equally lame tactics. Convolution ftw.

Like Monks in general.

Oh snap, I went there.

It's true that there are other lame tactics, but I wouldn't say equally in this case. It wasn't a group that ultimately killed Gregori. It was one guy and his horse, and there was no time in between the trample and the sacrifice that anything could've happened to prevent this.

Every class has lame tactics and lame abilities.

Monk or no monk, I could kill anyone anywhere right now as a Moondancer was using my pooka to force drink absinthe. As an alchemist, I could make it super cheap too. The problem I'm pointing out (which I feel provides too much shelter for Thoros in situations like these) is that lame tactics are selectively fixed based entirely upon politics.

My Moondancer example won't be fixed because people aren't crying about it.

Well, that makes sense then.

But the degree to which people cry about something is directly related to how much that something is used. While the potential for lameness does abound, it's only logical that you focus your attention on the actuated lameness as opposed to the potential lameness.

THE LAMENESS OF YOUR LAMENESS IS LAMENESS.

Actually, qft.

Similarly, the moment people start actually using pooka abuse drink absinthe (and it's hardly just MDs, if anything nihilists probably have it easiest) you might well see it nerfed.

I want a pooka... I haz lots of absinthe.

Pooka is the backbone of Wiccan combat right now, so I'd rather not.

God help Wiccans if it gets envoyed to take balance.

I disagree. This only creates problems later. If something is a known problem, it should be fixed regardless if someone is actively crying about it. I think this is very important because it establishes an objective system of fixing combat imbalances.

For example, I'm a Tahtetso monk. A lot of people have cried about what I can do on forums. A -lot- of people. As a result for a rather lengthy period, the general consensus was "Tahtetso is overpowered but Shofangi/Nekotai" are terrible. On the flip side, I truly believe that Nekotai is -much- stronger than Tahtetso and Shofangi is ridiculous in its own element. However, people totally focused their attention elsewhere because the limelight wasn't on them.

This lead to various ideas on how to "fix" monks, which largely revolved around nerfing Tahtetso, but it would have no had no real impact on Nekotai/Shofangi. If I hadn't prodded Steingrim into raising holy hell, this entire special envoy on momentum may have achieved one goal: nerfing Narsrim... with no real impact on 2/4 monk guilds (thankfully, it's turning out to be far more productive now than it was).

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It's also a player tactic. A group of people decide that if they collectively whine, they can achieve results from their cumulative input. This needs to stop.

ok ok.. I concede... We need to get rid of beast web.

We shall replace it with beast dominate.

give absinthe to thoros;beast dominate thoros sip absinthe;forestcast sap thoros

Let's get on this!

This wouldn't impact forcing alcohol/absinthe though. I don't see why anyone would suggest such a silly idea.

Look at Achaea where they nerfed Soulmaster to take a 4 second balance upon Order.

Poor Occultists. Never stood a chance.

I don't think pooka absinthe would result in nerfing pooka such that it takes balance, that gimps a bunch of completely undeserving things.

Narsrim: I think you're conflating two distinct things there. One is the awareness that something is broken. People maybe aren't aware that nekotai is, in your opinion, more borked than tahtetso. The other is complaints about an abusive tactic. We're all aware that pooka absinthe would be retarded (if expensive) if people used it. But they don't. So it never comes up for nerfing. If there was some kind of envoy report going in on, I don't know, lameass attrition tactics (hunger/exhaustion/non-user-caused-like-scrambledbrain wp drain for example), and someone remembered pooka absinthe, it would get added to the report, right? I don't think people would actively defend it that much because "it isn't used." It's just that for normal envoy slots there are more pressing problems.

EDIT: Ouch, that sounds vicious.

My point is that when balance issues are addressed based upon what is in the political limelight instead of actively focusing to fix what is actually broken. Envoy slots aren't as limited as you think: look at all the dumb new skill/tweak suggestions that could easily have been used to address an actual problem.

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Consider this:

It took me as an Envoy -months- to get a power cost for ectoplasm. That's right - ectoplasm used to hit an entire room of people for 0p. However, Lichdom had been nerfed recently, and the general mood at the time as "Magnagora was getting picked on" so it took forever and a day to fix a seriously broken skill. Likewise at that time, a whole slew of skills were nerfed for dumb reasons because a collective of non combatants were complaining in union (Elryn and company vs. double animated dagger).

Just cause I missed this post.

I was in the trees for a good portion of it. I was being stun whored and knocked down and my main objective was to get my meld spread. Hence the move, meld, stun whore action. Move, meld, stun whore action. I had actually only just dropped to the ground shortly before the trample/sac.

Lesson learned I suppose since you can't trample in trees.

This doesn't change the fact the ability to trample/sac is completely unbalanced and comparing tactics that require a minimum of 3 people to a minimum of 2 people and a horse is a bit further fetched.

Not that insta telepathy kills don't suck too. I have been telepathy ganked that way too, but it is far far easier to have one person trigger a response off a single line of text than it is to have 3+ people trigger off varying ping times.