Pinleg judge is an instant active kill? You can do anything to a judger outside of just sprawling to stop it. Crucify now stops a tumble in progress, why didn't it make your list Malarious?

The rest of this thread is simply hilarious. Batbane was a change people had to use, then figure out it was ridiculous, then go through a process to get nerfed, which it still did outside of reports. This is because it wasn't known it would stack in the manner it did, being a brand new skill. Trample/sac on the other hand has been around for more than an RL year and has been brought to the admin's attention before. When beast web was added, people said "I wonder if trample will be added to beast balance" and everyone thought "Surely no one is that bad at decision making in the Divine realm." And they were wrong, apparently. The reason so much bitching is going on is because it was KNOWN this would happen before the change. It was KNOWN and STATED by the envoys that these exact situations would occur the day it was put in. It was also known that the epic responses by the users would be posted, along with some more playing down of their own skillsets and throwing up straw men.

I have to question whether the administration has ever heard of temporary measures, such as disabling the command until a decision is reached or simply changing it back to the way it was so the same player can't instantly break all your limbs and sacrifice you at the same time.

In short, just do what I do. Throw roleplay and org defense to the birds for the time being and just sit around until admins get off their asses and fix it. If you squint off your nexus to see two bards, two necromancers, and two horses, simply order everyone to stand down. The same people using these things would bitch up an endless storm if they faced conditional instakills that could be met in <2s by two people, but they aren't so the usage/laughing will continue.

Edit: And just to be "haha" about it, complaining about batbane is retarded considering it just presents you with a situation that you all say is so easy to escape from. Sip anatine and gust yourself gosh darnit, barrierchasm == batbane/bardoon. Either way, batbane/bardoon still allows you time to kill or escape, which tramplesac does not. Keep clouding the issue though, it's fun.

I may be wrong, but I'm fairly certain I'm the one who pointed out to Xiel that batbane + deathsong = win. I wasn't a bard at the time. I never had batbane. I just used common sense and basic math to conclude that earache + short delay + short instant kill = dead. It was likewise something easily testable.

It's not as if it was some esoteric combination of skills used in a specific environment with a unset number of random variables compounding upon each other to achieve a bizarre situation that was unavoidable. It was just basic common sense.

How this skill ever came into being is baffling, but the time it took to nerf it was retarded because it was not nerfed until the political mafia caught wind of it and started whining. My point is that the administration should have some basic idea, in fact, I know they are smart, intelligent people who do. Why they opt to wait, however, to fix some of the most ridiculously broken things though is a mystery. I mean in this case, you could prove that it was unavoidable by expending 30 seconds to test it.

It was also possible to escape from, since the timer was random. There are also various ways to stop the kill in progress that don't involve deafness. These were the factors in it taking time, not that "basic math" means a sure kill every time. I certainly escaped it plenty of times on Sintor when Xiel tried to do it to me. Kata throw, forcing, anatine gust, peace before last non-death message, etc. You know, all the things that stop chasm will stop this. You also had some amazing envoys at the time, like Izekeal who actually said on the envoy channel that if you remove batbane/herbbane you "might as well delete Glomdoring because that's all they have."

In theory I agree completely. Given unlimited resources. But given limited resources it's unrealistic to expect the admin to go through and fix every possible lame situation in addition to their normal workload.

EDIT: Though I do agree that the political environment surrounding game balance is extremely frustrating but am uncertain if that is just the nature of online games. The envoy system serves its purposes but there doesn't seem to be enough input and oversight from players who are truly game masters. And there is always the problem of things getting put in that are just clearly a bad idea from the start without full vetting. That anyone thought it would be a good idea to put trample on beast balance without any other changes is pretty mind boggling. The admin obviously can do whatever they like given its their game but if we truly want a focus on fair, balanced gameplay, we need more than just randomly picked people tossed into the political minefield that are envoys.

The degree to which people cry about something is also directly related to the amount of people you have crying and how personally disadvantageous what you're crying about is.

Celenwilde has more people than Magnadoring.
Celenwilde will have more crying about overpowered Necromancy skill X than Magnadoring will be able to muster to cry about overpowered Sacraments skill Y.

Ergo: The balance of crying, and therefore the nerf hammer, is directly aimed at Magnadoring while retarded Celenwilde skills and tactics can (or at least have a disproportionately better chance to) flourish like pretty little flowers.

That being said: nerf trueheal.

Sure. Nothing is perfect. However, at least some measures could be taken. Example: No envoy may submit a new skill to a skillset for 2-3 months until we has out balancing issues. Alternatively, certain balanced skillsets should get "locked" so that no more new skills/tweaks can be done unless a super good reason is presented.

I see why you're no longer an envoy. I wonder why you act this way, heh.

Edit: And just for the lulz, it's funny reading these kinds of responses from Romero and Thoros. Romero, who once preached about how he's always looking for a one on one fight, but runs when he gets one. I.E. Last night, Romero vs Nydekion. I'll post the log when he sends me it. It goes a bit like this. Romero raids, Nydekion responds. They fight. Romero runs. Romero tesseracts out. Thoros comes. Thoros and Nydekion fight. Thoros medallions out repeatedly. Frustrated, Romero and Thoros team up. Romero and Thoros team-sac Nydekion. Amusing.

I swear, players should just band up and refuse to put another dime into this game until things are fixed. You get better customer satisfaction at Walmart.

Once more, you can't both call someone else wrong for doing something, and justify doing it yourself because they did it first. Pick one or the other. You can either be wrong along with the people you criticize, or you can decide they weren't wrong after all now that you're doing it too.

I dunno about that... when I gank someone in Wal-mart they always call security and tell me to put the nerf shooter back on the shelf. I am not a satisfied customer!

Apparently...the zerg does not pick up on Thoros's sarcasm.

Yes, it's broken.

The question: Why should we not use it?

Did Xiel not whore batbane+bardoon nonstop? Did you all rise up against him in this sort of thread to smite down the injustice? No. (Not that I expected you to, nor do I think you should have) Have you lead a jihad against Narsrim's unstoppable insta? No. But somehow, these guys are abusers/griefers/jerks because they are giving back what was given to them.

Yes, it's broken. Yes, it will be fixed. No one is the spawn of satan for using what they have access to (as long as it's not a bug) like everyone before them has.

Xiel doesn't behave like Thoros and it was fixed in good time. We haven't had to deal with it for years. Sarcasm my rear. I also didn't hear you wailing when Shikha was whoring it to win fights. Monks are eternally being fixed. I think the consensus is that they need to be fixed/deleted or what have you.

Edited: I'm trying not to be inflammatory.

Yes, I know. It's some small victory for you to make faux predictions regarding my posts. Victory is yours.

My point, since you missed it, is that neither parties are wrong in using skills available to them (as long as they aren't buggy) and Gregori, you, or whomever trying to portray Thoros/Romero/Esano as somehow worse than Xiel or Narsrim in regards to their whorish skills is nothing more than petty bias.

It'll be fixed in time and you can expect it to be used until that time.

But don't let my logic get in the way of your mud slinging. We're all Mags IRL. In fact, I'm kicking a baby right now.

Logic or hypocrisy?

"I don't have a problem with people using broken skills. I have a problem with them being broken. Use what you have and expect others to do the same. I don't get why you can't understand this. That's not hypocritcal, that's reality." -me

It's hypocrisy if you assume I'm telling your side it's unfair to whore things while telling my side to whore it non stop, which you can draw that conclusion by....not reading.

Whore away. People will rage. Names will be slandered. In time, things will be fixed. Circle of life.

Just noticed this thread.

Fyi, trample's being changed along with the envoy reports, so once I finish coding those (should be soon), this will be fixed.

For me the silliness is the constant "Well, YOU used such and such so I will use such and such." Especially when the you is pretty vague. I wouldn't have much problem with Thoros or Romero or whoever else is leading this charge of sactrample saying "Yes it's broken. Yes it's ridiculously OP. But it's not our fault that the broken situation exists and we're going to use it for all its worth while we have it." Though I suppose in Romero's case it would be a bit bad since it kind of is his job to try to address problems like this given he's an envoy.

While I wouldn't exactly respect the statement, there is little that can be said against it. They're players playing the game to win and they use whatever it takes to do that. That's their style and who am I to say that they're playing the game "wrong"? If it turns out its not good for the overall health of the game, that's really up to the admin to address and given their general stance on flat out mechanics abuse I would say that they have nothing against this style of play.

This is coming from the person who attempts to forum jihad something whenever she gets mad.

*pat*

Actually, check the log Mali. Clearly your sweetheart told you wrong. It went more like 1 on 1 for a good bit, Thoros walks in, Romero says "I got this."

Thoros watches and laughs as I trash talk while fighting. Nydekion even tosses in a ponder since he isn't hurting me at all.

Nydekion while whoring beast web to bypass my parry stance then turns on grim (killing my creature while he whores a creature) lol.

Nydekion trueheals when I almost solosac him (WITHOUT TRAMPLE OMG).

Nydekion runs when I almost Soulless him.

Nydekion kills grim.

Elodres runs in and starts melding the place, I am starting to get hit with stun and getting teamed by both.

Romero says 'wtf I thought this was 1 on 1.'

Romero runs out of faeleaf in the middle of a fight and is getting teamed in what is supposed to be a 1 on 1 (no rebounding or curing blind since its set to faeleaf)

I then left, when to astral, bought 500 faeleaf from Talan, came right back, killed Steingrim, Nydekion, Raikogen and Pharamon in a 4 vs 2.

And yes, I want a 1 vs 1 with whoever will offer, I enjoy and have gone against people who I think are far better than me at combat (Narsrim, Vathael). But first, don't bring lame tactics of hitting my demon while you whore a beast. Don't trueheal and run yourself. Don't bring a melder and then tell your gf it was 1 on 1.

As for everyone's sentiment on tramplesac, I don't see why everyone is getting so mad. All I did was crucify.

But really, special report for trample, lets finalize it tonight or put it back on old balance, it really won't change that this kill was for laughs and doesn't happen.