Magnagora was healthy just a couple weeks ago. And a couple months before that it was easily healthy enough to stomp Celest with Seren backup every day effortlessly. This whole premise is wrong so the conclusion can't be anywhere close.

Magnagora was nightly raiding Celestia, Water, and Prime Celest in October and November. Each one of those raids was at the classic "off hours" times and Celest was getting beat senseless. Magnagora is not an innocent victim by any stretch of the imagination.

In fact they made a point of raiding Prime Celest over and over. Celest raided Prime Magnagora.... once.

It was actually common on Serenwilde CT to say "Set up defenses, Magnagora is about to raid us when they are done with Celest." That's how clock work they were.

There was an Order war today! Between Eventru and Charune. Was nice to actually have something to do, since I feel kinda crappy going after places that can't really do much unless super bored. Then I generally just leave little people alone unless they hit me first.

This is an interesting thread.

Even though there are an additional influx of people from Kongregate, it seems the economy is hitting Lusternia hard as well.

The crux of it is can a griefer (doesn't matter which organization) make up for the loss of revenue they create by driving a paying customer away? Evidence indicates no.

Another idea was a city or commune could capitulate in some manner and 'pay off' an aggressor, which would make their avatars invincible for some period.

^I like this idea. Make it a Power Tithe and give the aggressor reasons to go after the other organizations.

To make it viable, give communes Enchantment and cities Alchemy.

It isn't your responsibly to make sure they do well but you have to consider the state of the city. Thoros may have raided, but that didn't stop noncombatant Magnagorans being jumped or people being enemied for no reason to be enemies to be jumped. It isn't fair to take the spectre of Thoros as a justification for doing anything you choose, which is how people seem to be justifying it here.

Ofcourse Magnagora has to do some house keeping to fix up their problems, but if you keep attacking people like Thoros and Romero will remain prominent as they are only people who can withstand the onslaught. They need to do it themselves, but it's doubtful they will under sustained pressure, think of Germany after WW1, how did that feel after occupied by the French? They started a new war and elected war leaders, which is what this does to Magnagora.

You seem to be implying that gods are pushing players to the point where players feel they have to grief orgs. I honestly have no idea what you are talking about. I don't "audit" the gods insofar as I watch their every move, and I pretty much let them run their orders at their own discretion (that is, after all, their 'perk'). But if you feel a god is behaving counterproductively or against the interests of the game in general, feel free to email support--or email me directly if you prefer.

Cute.

Magnagora has been occupied more than once lately Gregori, as people so kindly pointed out in other thread they have no guards, so they are invaded on a regular basis and if you could see logs you would see regular loyal denizen deaths that are needed for quests.

Define Magnagora for those nightly raids Gregori as commonly Thoros+1 other is counted as Magnagora these days. Notably Narsrim and others do that to a greater extent now.

Shiri, if Magnagora was healthy would it collapse when Thoros left?

Thoros was just contested not that long ago. They could have cleaned up their house then. In fact one person went so far as to post that Magangora is under a golden age with the leadership of Thoros.

Magnagora has no intention of cleaning house, it has no intention of solving it's internal problems. It is much easier for the people who create the problems to blame it on "we don't have enough demigods. You rape us all the time. You have a zerg. We can't fight you so we are quitting."

Don't get me wrong. Finding excuses is human nature. Everyone prefers to find an excuse than to deal with the issue, but don't mistake that for "if Magnagora was left alone they would elect a new leader." They already had that chance.

Thoros, Revan, Ixion, Daevos, Romero, Ethelon all the magnagoran raiders. If you refuse to pay attention to what goes on in Lusternia then I am sorry you don't get to sit in a discussion about what happens in Lusternia and give out misinformation about the state of things.

I don't go to hospitals after sitting in a waiting room and tell doctors how to perform surgery.

Yet those are problems that do exist, giving it a name doesn't it false.

A chance? Would you elect Shaddus instead of Thoros? The election could hardly be deemed a challenge to his authority.

It was more a matter of clarification for the audience, no need to attack me personally, but then you that is the only way you know how to post on the forums isn't it?

Ixion and Daevos are barely active, Revan hardly as much either, but even them doing that wasn't occupying Celest and it wasn't raids in the city (which I know they have done in the past). They actually limited themselves compared to what Narsrim has managed to inflict in recent memory, even if a reflexive group will dredge up memories of the bad old days. I don't care about the old days, we are talking about now.

There was all sorts of capable people I would elect over Thoros. Nariah for one. The fact remains Thoros led Magnagora down a path, when that path had an army at the end Thoros vanished and Magnagora crumbled and is paying the price. Magnagora could have replaced him the last election, and even with him having not been around in what, over a week? Nobody dares challenge him.

Now, this is really off topic from Estarra's original intent, and I apologise, but I do feel that there is more to the issue than something that a hard coded mechanic will fix.

I don't know what Gregori's on, but he's on logical fire.

Mag screwing itself up is no one's fault but Mag's, blaming Serenwilde/Celest because they choose to capitalize on it is a pretty futile gesture.

It's like some of you guys are just ignoring the fact that 1. If the shoe were on the other foot, it would be kicking just as hard, 2. it hasn't even been that long since Mag's 'golden age'

It wasn't a personal attack, it was a statement of fact. You come here making posts with misinformation and ill informed facts then ask "who did what?" If you are going to defend a section of the game at least know the facts about it.

I am well aware those people are barely active now, I in fact never said anything about them being active now. I said they did this nightly to Celest in October and November. Which was not that long ago.

The "bad old days" have relevance to now, you can't ignore what they did because it was 4 months ago. Yesterday never happened because we only talk about today is the arguement and stance of someone with no knowledge of the facts and is trying to smoke screen.

You really call their recent time on top a Golden Age? They still lost Demon Lords regularly and most of the time they still didn't win villages.

If Celest were being this brutalised it would be topical too, but this is where the cycle will end as there is a megaorganisation, as I think catarin called it who can and would oppose them indefinitely.

It's strange no Magnagorans have actually commented on the assertions then they are screwing themselves up. I do think there needs to a hard coded answer, even if something deeper needs to be done in magnagora.

I appreciate your two cents, but if you don't know the circumstances behind that, don't bring it up.

I was asking for your definition, which i stated my reasoning for previously, people are typically vague in their accusations of who did what.


I was referring to further back since people on forums have a habit of dredging back memories from the dawn of the game to back up their claims that might is right and everything is a beautiful circle of life. They will have some relevance, but are not a justification by their mere existence which many people paint them as. The events of now are just as important without it being diluted by someone invoking a past that likely doesn't even compare to what is happening now.

'quotation' tags are nice things, though I probably should stop being lazy and not use apostrophes.

The megaorganization came out because Mag couldn't help but pick fights with both, regardless of the circumstances, that's what ended up happening.

And it doesn't matter if no Mags ever comment on it. The fact of the matter is everything important in Mag that may even contain a hint of combat grinded to a staggering halt the moment Thoros disappeared. Even the ur'bashes. With that gone, of course the megaorganization will come out and play.

Oh I can dredge up memories. Magangora from October till January stomping the hell out of Celest day in and day out the moment the game started. I believe Chade even posted about that himself in this thread. Magnagora then turning on Serenwilde due to Events and trying to stomp hell out of Serenwilde. This was the beginning of the Cycle of Life in Lusternia and it has gone back and forth for 4 years ever since.

History is relevant.

Save for the few constructive posts and people posting on topic, this thread is truly sad and pathetic :/ almost makes me wish some people would actually go away, instead of doing IG and then coming to post utter and useless here, even more that's not relevant to the subject in any way...

But enough steaming.

I don't see either of two (actually three) semi-plausible solutions discussed classify as forced RP from the Admins. When this happens it is frowned upon, yes. However this only happens with events that clearly require orgs to team up... come to think of it, only notable one that I can remember is the Kephera/Illithoid one. There where a few others that somewhat weakened existing alliances and griefed Celest(hello Raziela event, hello Aetherbroadcast centre, etc). I don't recall much complaining about "forced RP" when, say, Marani was out to grief entire Basin with her priestesses and destroy Nil by throwing Celestia at it. It was actually rather interesting to see all four orgs working together, or working knowing that they WILL need the help of their enemies in order to succeed.

Like I said in my first post and like it has been said before by others, the capitulation, while interesting and actually a viable method, it's highly unlikely to happen due to the mindset of most players. Personally I, ICly, see it as admitting a defeat in a battle in order to try and win the war afterwards (although we know it's not possible to win). In no way does it really mean that you accept that Taint is stronger than Light or that you are weak. It only means that when you want to think it's so. In fact, capitulating means that you are willing to go great lenghts to protect your beliefs and organization from instant destruction in order to survive and continue fighting when you've recovered.

I find it strange that people dismiss the suggestiong about decreasing damage the org receives by loosing their sMobs/Special thingy. In terms of protecting the organization from being stomped in the ground, this makes even more sense than the capitulation suggestion and even less ground for someone to shout at Admin for forcing RP. At the same time I see it as a perfectly viable sollution. SMobs fall, you take full damage. Less than year passes and they fall again, you take half damage, less than a year passes you take no damage at all, less than year passes and you take no damage and your sMobs gain immunity for X amount of time. Only real problem I see with this is bonds/pacts which first of all are unique to Cities only and the little sense it would make when you keep your bond/pact with the sMob dead. Surely a solution could be found if someone would look for it...

Enchanting Circle/Alchemis Lab that is not connected to City/Forest. While somewhat irrelevant, as it would not stop org X to stomp org Y, it has a potential to break up alliances and if not anything else, would somewhat prevent it happening due to not being constantly able to gather enough people for a raid.
Just a circle to... Ar'thart Observatory or Mesa Compound and Alchemist's lab to some forrestal territory. You don't even have to make them suck like someone suggested. You're risking what? Some... six rogues? Ten rogues? It still would be damn hard to be a rogue in most cases, because most Power abilities are linked with a specific Nexus of Power. And what do you get in return? Cities don't rely on Forests, Forests don't rely on Cities to acquire bare necessities. You don't mess with anyone's RP by giving Enchantments/Alchemy to Forests/Cities and you don't force any RP by forcing orgs to bond. Why is this so hard to do? I think it's rather clear that it's a win-win situation and everyone would benefit from it.

And to finish it off... I don't remember what else I wanted to say.
So I'll say this. Some people should stop moaning and try to be contructive when they're given a chance to change something. This thread is slowly turning into another OrgX raid thread from the Idiots! section. Which is... A: Stop :censor:ing griefing us B: Lol, harden up A: :censor:ing stop already B: Lol, you did not stop when you were doing that A: We where not doing that B: Yes you did A: No we didn't B: Yes you did A: No we didn't ... 15 pages later A: No we didn't B: Yes you did.


P.S.
Do forgive the countless typos, just can't be bothered to go back and correct them.


EDIT:
Had to edit because obviously I'm OP and the boards doesn't censor me.