I think I said it two years ago: killing guards, causing property damage, etc are the biggest feasible ways of causing apparent and noticable damage to an organization. It's also very fun, and raiding gains you a notoriety for being a 'badass' or a 'bastard' - something to this effect.

Some players raid because it's fun.

Some players raid because it pisses people off.

You get all kinds in a game like Lusternia, and some of those kinds happen to be people who want to wage war. Since there's very few visible ways of harming an org besides doing the aforementioned things, we take whatever we can get. Gregori is also right, when he said it's a morale thing - when you play in a competitive, combat-centric game such as this one, you want to make sure you are the winner. People feeling crushed and defeated practically affirms that.

Also, question: is there any way to take control of a village outside a revolt?

If not, then there's really no reason to raid a village outside of the same reason you raid a city: lol pk.

That's why Glom never hires guards for villages outside of mining villages. The guards are a better target than the village itself.

Other orgs learned to do the same thing after a while, but there was a period of time with complaining that we "weren't playing the game" because we stopped putting targets in our villages.

So why would attacking villages be lucrative? If I want commodities from the village, I send a novice out there to do it for me and pat him on the head or favour him. I sneak in and do it myself. There's no real reason to attack a village that would visibly harm the organization holding it.

On the other side of the spectrum, allowing villages to be conquered through PK would currently mean Magnagora and Glomdoring would be hurt even more than they are now.

It isn't. If there are no guards in it, attacking the village actually means you can't influence it the next time it revolts-- there is a built-in discouragement of mass villager slaughter.

Why would the Administration say this then?

The Planes part is definitely much more lucrative.

Who knows about the village end of it-- it's actually less lucrative to attack a village than a Prime org, because being enemied to the village itself causes further issues. Fixing that costs a lot of gold or time (or both).

Maybe I'm just being pedantic, but are you intentionally ignoring all the ways that the various villages are in competition with one another and this changes how much they tithe? Because admittedly, to a lot of people, "our village is producing less commodity-X, let's go kill/rescue/enslave/free/kidnap miners/farmers/cattle" is pretty trivial, sure. But it's not nothing. And there've certainly been times when there's been a lot of it going on, particularly in the mining villages (metals are valuable) and in Estelbar/Acknor (the roleplay of slavery seems to have more impact on people than revolving-door-of-the-Fates-style-murder, and no one ever seems to get that excited about hemp farmers or cattle.) Or is that kind of "invade the village and do bad stuff there" not the kind of raiding you're thinking of, you're thinking only of "kill the villagers for fun" (and excluding doing it as part of the Angkrag deal, too)? Because I bet it's the kind Estarra's thinking of.

Raiding in terms of Lusternia generally involves killing stuff. Stealing furrikin / ewes / etc. isn't quite on the same caliber, and doesn't have any sort of thrill for combatants. Excepting Dwarves.

Though that would be known as an actual "raid" in the Real World environment.

My point is that if you're wondering why Estarra's saying things that seem to make no sense, it might be that she isn't using the word the way you are.

Yeah, it's possible, but it still doesn't make sense in the context it's said in (something for people who enjoy PvP to partake of instead of murdering loyals in Prime territory).

I'm not an ascendant, what's your excuse now.

EDIT: At any rate, raiding cities, it just seems like a morale issue than anything else. Some things you kill just respawn others cost gold/power to re-raise but more than anything I think it is just a show of dominance, or rather who raids at a less convenient time for the target organization.

Wasn't talking about you.

I am not ignoring that, but I do not see it as anything more than what you said: trivial. It doesn't make a big enough swing to be significant - the makings of significance are there, though. I felt like Estarra was more proposing that instead of smacking down Magnagora, we go smack down one of their villages or mess with those villages. If we attack them and kill members, we lose the power to influence the villages. If we try to disrupt their trade, that isn't as significant as killing guards and killing statues/griefing players.

Does disrupting villages cause players to go out of their way to do something else? Does it waste the power reserves of enemies? Does it cause a visible point of damage? You yourself called it trivial. I would not think it achieves any of these.

Killing the supernals or lords causes guardians to go out of their way to repact, spending 50 power to regain all the pledges/pacts if they're trans. It causes a visible point of damage to Magnagora or Celest because a portion of their citizens become crippled due to an inability to use angels or demons. The topic of planar raiding isn't really at hand here, though - but I use it as an example to show what I interpret as something 'significant' and worth doing.

Invading the villages and doing bad stuff is conflict, yes - and I guess it's an avenue of conflict that is persuable. But it doesn't have the same 'feel' as destroying something visibly that your enemies pay to keep up or NEED to operate. That is why city raids are more common than village raids - it's just the visibility and severity of the action, in my opinion. The city and commune is supposed to be your safe haven where nobody can hurt you that you can stay in to avoid enemy conflict. When somebody comes in with a huge group to cut their way through to harm you and harm anything your org pays upkeep for, it's a shock.

But then again, everything here I've stated is thrown askew by the fact that constructs exist and remain in tact - and they provide a huge benefit to their owners. Why haven't orgs attacked THOSE yet?

This is really too much for me to read at the present time being but from what I've gathered reading a few words from every paragraph I'll just say, toughen up princess, happens.

I expect Mag's to go boom again when there's a well-timed Major Weakening. The things happen once a week or so for each org, and if it happens when nobody's around on your side (or very few), nothing happens.

At the same time, when they're destroyed they're gone for a full real-life month at minimum so it's not really anything that can regularly reoccur anyways. I think that lends something to the apathy.

.. ? I'm in Celest, I'm arguing against the whiners. I'm wondering why Estarra would propose we attack something with very, very little significance or severity instead of something obviously satisfying to kill.

Also, dear god at the construct cooldowns. What were people thinking? :/


EDIT: I JUST HAD TO OPEN MY MOUTH. SORRY, GLOMDORING.

Exactly. So perhaps what Estarra needs to have pointed out is that messing around with villages isn't impactful enough to attract the attention of the raiders.

Good job. Griefer.

But if we make village raiding impactful on the level that attacking cities or communes is, then what is the point? We're just giving the community another way to spark cries of 'grief' - I'm not really too sure of some things regarding the use of the word 'grief' here, though. I don't think people understand the term they're using. But by this community's definition of it, I figure if you make village attacks or interference just as damaging, it will only intensify the quantity of whining because you could mop up a village and then mop up the city or commune for a double dose of damage. I honestly have not problem with it, because in the end I'm one of the people who draws a sense of satisfaction from a well-planned raid or causing damage to an org on that level - but I'd imagine most other players DO have a problem with it.