I think this has been said before, but I was looking to get some furniture for a more outdoors-y manse room. First off, manse rooms still count as indoor, right?

and secondly, if they do, can that be removed to indoor/outdoor? artisans would have more designs to sell the playerbase, players would have more choices, and people like me with forestmanses would have appropriate furniture.

ideas? quotes that shoot this idea down?

No, trust me. We've tried this, it isn't happening.

Maybe they could make an artifact that makes a manse room into an outdoors manse room, and it would be permanent.

...Manse rooms can only be indoors?

It sounds silly for this idea not to be put in place for two reasons:

- You don't care what SURVEY says, you are still going to have that Zen garden outside.

- Who cares if it is an Aethership? A bubble surrounds the outdoor rooms, moving on.

Of course, that said, it may seem silly to bother coding it.

Describe your room as outdoors and move on.

Estarra shot it down quite definitively on a thread here, I can't find it right now though.

The coding required would be trivial. Where it now says something like

if (room-is-indoors and design-is-indoors) or (room-is-outdoors and design-is-outdoors) then build_furniture;

it would just change to:

if (room-is-indoors and design-is-indoors) or (room-is-outdoors and design-is-outdoors) or (room-is-manse) then build_furniture;

There was an artifact to change a manse room to outdoors, I think, but only a few were sold in an auction.

The net result of this is that the Charites have to spend extra time approving both indoors and outdoors versions of designs, and artisans spend extra slots and gold making them, and databases have to hold duplicate copies, for no real benefit to the game. Actually, most outdoors designs are never used since the vast majority of outdoor rooms are unfurnishable and the vast majority of furniture goes into manses anyway.

Right... The annoying thing is if I want, say, a bench for my outdoor manse-room, I can't use an outdoor design. And that bugs me, since I'll just end up getting a new design made that fits in manses that is (basically) already an existing design for outdoors, and that just gives the Charites more work.

Have any artisan trademasters checked to see if they can set the indoor/outdoor flag on designs? You can manually set any field on a cooking design, including taking a pattern from one skill and remaking it under another. (For example, you can take the soup pattern, which is by default made with the Soup ability, and change it to a delicacy with the base noun of soup.) You could make outdoorsy furniture that is set for an indoor build.

Exactly, I'd need a new design. Trouble is, EVERY time I want a piece of furniture for my manse that truly fits the outdoors-y place that it is, I'll have to get a custom design for it. I really don't get why they can't just remove the indoor/outdoor flag (or, from a coding perspective, add outdoor, since manses are treated as indoor) to manse rooms, or at least do so when asked for specific manse rooms, since I know not every manse owner cares as much as I do.

Even a credit artifact (about 50 credits, like a cloaking gem?), that would do this, would be appreciated!

A custom design costs less than two credits. You might want to go that route instead.

Thing is, it seems like a simple code to fix (this may not be the case- let us know if that's why this hasn't been done, Estarra!). Assuming it is indeed relatively easy to fix, it should be done; firstly, because artisans frequently lose customers because a particular design can't be built in a manse, and second (and more importantly) because submitting my designs that are quite likely relative copies of existing designs seems like a huge waste of the Charites' time, and a waste of the Charites' time causes a waste of trademaster time everywhere.

So, I guess the question is, how hard would it be to code a fix for this?

Well, the change I proposed above would be literally a one line code change and would take minutes. More complex solutions have been proposed which would take more time (and in my opinion be less preferable). Convincing Estarra that manses should not be treated like public places: priceless.