Cultural differences in the practice of medicine

by Navaryn

Back to The Real World.

Navaryn2009-03-17 19:58:13
Hi!

So, I'm currently working on a paper about healing gardens for university and I came across this part which I found very interesting (although irrelevant to my research) written by Clare Cooper Marcus about the differences in how illness is viewed and treated among Western cultures with close ties to each other. Now I know some of you are studying in medicine (or plan to) so I figured I might as well post it, share it with you and know your thoughts in the process. By the way, it's a bit long. With that said, enjoy!



QUOTE
" The French, for example, with a cultural emphasis on the aesthetic and sexual reproduction, perform significantly fewer routine circumcisions, hysterectomies, and mastectomies than are done in the United States. French medicine pays great attention to the "terrain" and constitution of the patient; hence, antibiotics are much less frequently prescribed than in the United States, where disease tends to be seen as the invader. French medical practice favors ways to stimulate the immune system, favors treatments such as rest and stays at France's spas, fringe treatments such as homeopathy and aromatherapy, and makes France the leader in fields such as immunotherapy for cancer (Payer, 1996, p.62). "If the 'terrain' is more important than the disease, it becomes less important to fight the disease 'aggressively,' and more important to shore up the 'terrain.' While American doctors love to use the word 'aggressive,' the French much prefer 'les médecines douces,' or 'gentle therapies' (Payer, 1996, p.65)."

The French have the right to five weeks of paid vacation a year; it is commonly accepted that this period of time is necessary for a healthy person to recuperate from a year's work. Not surprisingly, French hospital stays are typically twice as long as those in the United States for the same procedure (Payer, 1996, p.70). One in every two hundred medical visits in France results in a prescription for a visit to a spa: Aix-Les-Bains for rheumatic complaints, Vichy for liver complaints, Le Mont-Doré for allergies. Almost all these visits are paid for, at least in part, by health insurance. when asked about the Anglo-Saxon disbelief in spas, Dr. Jacques Forestier, a leading proponent, responded: "It certainly shouldn't be said they are behind us; it's simply a position they have taken. Medicine is not yet a very exact science, and there should still be room for many different points of view" (Payer, 1996, p.73).

German doctors are much more likely than their counterparts in the United States, France, or England to treat many complaints as deficiencies of the heart or poor circulation. Payer argues that this is due to the lingering influences of nineteenth-century Romanticism and a cultural belief that the heart is not just a pump or mechanism (the American view), but an organ that a life of its own and responds to a variety of stimuli, including the emotions. "Still another legacy of Romanticism to German medicine is the healing powers accorded to nature, whether it be in the form of long walks in the forest, mud baths, or herbal medicine" (Payer, 1996, p.96). Of 8250 preparations listed in the German pharmacopoeia (the Rote Liste), 1400 are of herbal base. One-fifth of German doctors practice either homeopathy or anthroposophic medicine, both of which are recognized by the German health system."



Okay, this will be really freaking long if I put them all in the same post so I'll just make another for the remaining cultures. By the way, excerpts are taken from : Cooper Marcus, Clare and Marni Barnes. Healing Gardens, therapeutic benefits and design recommendations, John Wiley and Sons Inc Ed. 1999. P. 18-21.

And the authors took their info from : Payer, L. (1996) Medicine and Culture : Varieties of treatment in the United States, England, West Germany and France. New York : Henry Holt and Co.
Navaryn2009-03-17 20:34:01
QUOTE
"The cultural attitude toward medicine in Great Britain is characterized by caution and economy. A British patient is half as likely to have an X ray or surgery of any kind as an American, is prescribed fewer drugs than a French or German patient, and will have one-eighth the number of lab tests as a Canadian patient (Payer, 1996, pp.102-105). While part of the explanation may lie in the economic efficiencies inherent in a national health system, Payer presents evidence that the system itself grew out of a long-standing medical philosophy of critical questioning and caution regarding treatment. As a nation of empiricists, the British have been the leading proponents of randomized controlled trials in medical research. Britain has been the leader in pain control, geriatric medicine, and the hospice movement - all dedicated to a caring attitude and to quality of life and a lesser belief in medicine's ability to cure.

In addition to empiricism, a strain of Anglo-Saxon Romanticism is also part of the British national culture, rooted in the landscape painters of the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries, the nature poets such as Wordsworth, and exemplified today in almost a national obsession with gardening and with the countryside (being in it, writing about it, defending it). This philosophy partially explains the embracing of complementary treatments involving plants - homeopathy, Bach Flower Remedies, and aromatherapy; nurses trained in the latter are becoming more and more common in National Health Service hospitals. However, it is ironic to note that even in a culture with strong roots in nature and the garden, the idea of the therapeutic value of gardens in hospitals is not well established.

Early Americans were focused on conquering nature, in order to gain a foothold on a new continent. Since those times, American medical practitioners have been much more aggressive than those in Europe. Americans doctors perform more diagnostic tests than doctors in France, West Germany, and England, perform surgery more often, and prescribe higher doses of drugs.

Benjamin Rush, one of the signers of the Declaration of Independance and a doctor whose influence on medicine lasted for decades, believed that one of the hindrances to the development of medicine had been an undue reliance upon the powers of nature in curing disease, a thesis he blamed on Hippocrates (Payer, 1996, p.127). A historian of medicine, Martin S. Pernick, writes that Rush promoted his aggressive therapies by arguing that they were heroic, manly, and patriotic. "Americans were tougher than Europeans; Americans diseases were correspondingly tougher than mild European diseases; to cure Americans would require uniquely powerful doses administered by heroic Americans physicians" (quoted in Payer, 1996, p.128).

The can-do attitude in American culture, reflected in American medicine, has resulted in successes in treating many infectious (i.e., curable) diseases and reductions in the rates of heart attack and stroke, but an aggressive approach has proven less successful with chronic (i.e., incurable) conditions. Identical clinical trials interpreted cautiously in England are touted as definitive proof that the treatment works in the United States. Long-term conditions, such as chronic bronchitis and chronic rheumatism, are not well treated in the United States; medical spas, which have evolved elsewhere into successful treatments centers for chronic diseases, do not exist in the United States. Embracing the benefits of nature - in the form of curative waters, herbal treatment, or stress reduction in a garden setting - is antithetical to the cultural demand for action, aggressive measures, and fast results in the treatment of disease. In a culture where many regard the body as an efficient machine in need of occasional checkups (not unlike a car), the subtle, positive effects of spending time in nature are not given much attention and seem dubiously "unscientific" compared with a "race for the cure"."



Gah... That's all of it.
Fania2009-03-17 20:55:29
Very interesting. It sounds like a good read. I'll have to look into getting a copy. Thank you for sharing!
Narsrim2009-03-17 21:08:07
Hrm.

A decent read although very stereotypical, and in turn, of questionable value. While I have no doubt that each respective history of a given country influenced its development, the extent of extrapolation in articles like these goes above and beyond what I would consider reasonable.

QUOTE
German doctors are much more likely than their counterparts in the United States, France, or England to treat many complaints as deficiencies of the heart or poor circulation


This reeks of pseudoscience. What does this statement even imply? It's intentionally vague, and it cites no references.

QUOTE
Long-term conditions, such as chronic bronchitis and chronic rheumatism, are not well treated in the United States; medical spas, which have evolved elsewhere into successful treatments centers for chronic diseases, do not exist in the United States.


Yet again, I'm unconvinced. If someone has severe Rheumatoid Arthritis, the standard care for that patient involves the use of DMARDs, analgesics, and anti inflammatory medications. While it's true that complementary therapy is of substantial value and may be greater emphasized in some countries more so than others, it's false to suggest that it doesn't exist in the United States and/or that pharmaceuticals are not used to treat conditions like RA in France or Germany.

I live in rural West Virginia. Scattered throughout my local area are various hot sulfur springs most of which were established in the 1800s many of which have evolved into large scale medical spas and resorts. They have been used for over 150 years as a form of alternative medicine for the treatment of many diseases. In fact, they are still used for these purposes today.
Navaryn2009-03-17 21:37:13
QUOTE (Narsrim @ Mar 17 2009, 05:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hrm.

A decent read although very stereotypical, and in turn, of questionable value. While I have no doubt that each respective history of a given country influenced its development, the extent of extrapolation in articles like these goes above and beyond what I would consider reasonable.



This reeks of pseudoscience. What does this statement even imply? It's intentionally vague, and it cites no references.



Yet again, I'm unconvinced. If someone has severe Rheumatoid Arthritis, the standard care for that patient involves the use of DMARDs, analgesics, and anti inflammatory medications. While it's true that complementary therapy is of substantial value and may be greater emphasized in some countries more so than others, it's false to suggest that it doesn't exist in the United States and/or that pharmaceuticals are not used to treat conditions like RA in France or Germany.

I live in rural West Virginia. Scattered throughout my local area are various hot sulfur springs most of which were established in the 1800s many of which have evolved into large scale medical spas and resorts. They have been used for over 150 years as a form of alternative medicine for the treatment of many diseases. In fact, they are still used for these purposes today.



To be honest, this is only a fraction of the article, it kept going on for pages even after that last bit about "race for the cure". As I do not own the book, I made photocopies and posted what interested me. Reading them now, maybe I should have added that other paragraph where they state that Americans have started to use alternative practices more and more... but my fingers were getting numb so I stopped sad.gif

I may post it later, though.
Daganev2009-03-17 21:39:05
It sounds like this is looking at the law and legal policies of medical insurance in each country. Which I think can be very misleading.
Razenth2009-03-17 23:45:43
Narsrim is a med student. Listen to him. With a grain of salt.
Navaryn2009-03-17 23:50:52
For those interested, here's the rest of what I have...

QUOTE
"However, the increasing interest in alternative practices suggests widespread dissatisfaction with mainstream medicine. An entire issue of the Journal of the American Medical Association (November, 1998) was devoted to the phenomena of alternative medicine, and reported a significant survey conducted by Dr. David M. Eisenberg and colleagues at Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center in Boston and the Harvard Medical School. This national survey stated than an estimated four in ten Americans used at least one alternative or complementary remedy in 1997. Visits to alternative practitioners between 1991 and 1997 jumped by 41 percent. "Americans are now making more visits to alternative healers than to primary care medical doctors" (San Francisco Chronicle, November 11, 1998, p.A1, A15).

Some health insurance schemes now cover certain alternatives practices such as acupuncture. While most major hospitals have been relunctant to recognize complementary therapies, some have begun to embrace these practices. Harvard Medical School offers workshops at various locations in the United States on the spiritual component of healing. Vancouver Hospital in Vancouver, BC, recently opened the Tzu Chi Institute for Complementary and Alternative Medicine, housed in its own two-story building, complete with a meditation garden. A few medical schools now offer courses in integrative medicine, the blending of Western and complementary approaches to healing.

The 1990s have also seen a major upswing of interest among the American public in taking care of one's own health. Sales of herbal remedies are booming; exercise and fitness gyms are flourishing; sales of popular litterature on self-healing and health promotion are expanding; increasing numbers of consumers are willing to spend more on organic produce. People experiencing stress are well aware that spending time in nature has a healing effect.

Part and parcel of this significant paradigm shift is the burgeoning interest in healing or sanctuary gardens in both residential and healthcare settings. A major study using focus groups of patients and families to probe their basic perceptions about health care environments found that "closeness to nature" was one of seven consistent themes that consumers "



Sadly, this is where my photocopied notes end. No idea how the sentence end sad.gif
Narsrim2009-03-18 03:02:13
QUOTE (Razenth @ Mar 17 2009, 07:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Narsrim is a med student. Listen to him. With a grain of salt.


Remind us of your education, and why we should listen to you. I likewise would like to see you counter my points too. If you can.
Razenth2009-03-18 04:42:27
No, I'm not being sarcastic. I'm serious here. Not everyone knows you're a med student. Sheesh
Shiri2009-03-18 04:51:59
"With a grain of salt" means "in the knowledge that it's probably not that accurate" or something analogous to that.
Razenth2009-03-18 04:55:10
A small grain then. I was referring to the fact that I supposed that Narsrim was being or was educated at an American medical institution that may have taught in to approach medicine in the manner of the Americans. Given that the articles (sort of) critiques the American paradigm of healthcare, I thought that we should take into account any bias Narsrim may have.
Unknown2009-03-18 05:01:11
QUOTE (Razenth @ Mar 18 2009, 12:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
A small grain then. I was referring to the fact that I supposed that Narsrim was being or was educated at an American medical institution that may have taught in to approach medicine in the manner of the Americans. Given that the articles (sort of) critiques the American paradigm of healthcare, I thought that we should take into account any bias Narsrim may have.

Hrm. Perhaps you should have said that Narsrim is an American med student, then it would have made more sense for your original post.
Narsrim2009-03-18 05:17:26
QUOTE (Razenth @ Mar 18 2009, 12:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
A small grain then. I was referring to the fact that I supposed that Narsrim was being or was educated at an American medical institution that may have taught in to approach medicine in the manner of the Americans. Given that the articles (sort of) critiques the American paradigm of healthcare, I thought that we should take into account any bias Narsrim may have.


What is your level of education? If your going to call into question mine, I'm going to call into question your own. Yes, I hold a B.S. in Physiology, and yes, I'm a first year medical student.

=====+=====

I'm not sure how familiar you are with pseudoscience, but articles like these are rampant. I take it you didn't even read the two examples I posted because calling me bias. I suggest you do some research and in some shape or form try and justify your statements. Otherwise, you look quite foolish.

Did you even read the articles? Are you honestly suggesting that I'm lying in my statement that medical spas do in fact exist in the United States, and alternative medical practices surrounding them have been documented and practiced since the 1800s?

=====+=====

The Greenbrier White Sulfur Springs

QUOTE (From the History of the Greenbrier)
A spring of sulphur water is at the center of the resort property. It issues forth below the green dome of the white-columned springhouse that has been the symbol of The Greenbrier for generations. Beginning in 1778, Mrs. Anderson, a local pioneer, came to follow the local Native American tradition of "taking the waters" to restore her chronic rheumatism and for the first 125 years the resort was known by the name White Sulphur Springs.

The property soon fell into the hands of a prominent Baltimore family, the Calwells. Under the Calwells, the resort would begin to take shape. They sold cottages to prominent Southern individuals, many of which still stand today. Popular guests of the time included Martin van Buren and Henry Clay.

In 1858, a hotel was built on the property. This original hotel, The Grand Central Hotel, known by the moniker "The White" and later "The Old White", was torn down in 1922, several years after the addition of the current building. During the Civil War, the property changed hands between the Confederate Army and the Union Army, who almost burned the resort to the ground.

Following the Civil War, the resort reopened. It became a place for many Southerners and Northerners alike to vacation, and the setting for many famous post-war reconciliations, including the White Sulphur Manifesto, which was the only political position issued by Robert E. Lee after the Civil War, that advocated the merging of the two societies. The resort went on to become the center of post-war society, especially after the arrival of the railroad.

In 1910, the Chesapeake & Ohio Railway purchased the resort property, building additional amenities and The Greenbrier Hotel in 1913. At this time, the name officially changed to The Greenbrier, as the neighboring town adopted the name White Sulphur Springs. During World War II, the resort served both as an army hospital and as a relocation center for some of the Axis diplomats still within the United States.

After the war ended, C&O bought back the property from the government and reopened the resort, now redecorated by Dorothy Draper. Its reopening was a social event of the season, attracting such luminaries as the Duke of Windsor with his wife, Wallis Simpson, Bing Crosby, and The Kennedys. In recent history, the resort has hosted several presidents and vice-presidents, foreign dignitaries such as Jawaharlal Nehru, Indira Gandhi, Debby Reynolds, and Prince Rainier and Princess Grace of Monaco.
Razenth2009-03-18 05:24:19
Dude chill. Of course I'm not saying you're lying. And why shouldn't you take into account bias on anything you read? It's not like I'm not going to believe what you say; I'll consider it and weigh it against everything else I'm reading. Man, now you're reading all this stuff into what I said.
Narsrim2009-03-18 05:37:08
Feel free to do what you want; however, I find it rather disconcerting that you suggest my opinion is invalid because I have a degree in medicine, and I'm in school to become a physician when it comes to the practice of medicine.

As for any bias I have, I'm not defending how Americans practice medicine. I am, however, suggesting that the gross extrapolations and ridiculous assertions made in this article border on nonsense. I've already pointed out several, and I could easily point out more.

Articles like these are insulting to people who live/work in the medical community (be them American, German, British, or otherwise). They mislead people, and they confuse people. Now I will admit that we can't really judge the article on its entirely with only a fragment of it, but I'm not very impressed from what I've read so far.
Unknown2009-03-18 05:50:38
I treated the article the same way I treat pop psychology and fortune-telling. Interesting to read, but with a huge pinch of salt.
Narsrim2009-03-18 05:52:29
So I decided to look into this a bit more and I found some interesting quotes from Payer L: Medicine and Culture. Varieties of Treatment in the United States, England. West Germany, and France. New York. Henry Holt & Company. 1996. Enjoy. This Lynn Payer woman was quite a character.

QUOTE
“Not only do the French take their temperatures rectally, but many of the thermometers are
pointed,” he said. The practice will continue, according to one Frenchman because: “Who
would put a thermometer in his mouth that might have been in someone else’s rectum?
Nobody, which is why we’ll probably never switch over in France.”

“Nine in ten French patients believe that their headaches are due to the liver…French
people and their doctors attribute an extremely wide range of complaints to the liver,
including painful menstruation, paleness, yellowness, and general fatigue. Both patients and
dermatologists sometimes accuse the liver of causing acne or rash, dandruff, herpes, and
other skin complaints.”

“The English and Americans have a saying, ‘Cleanliness is next to godliness.’ The French
don’t. While Americans assume that if it’s clean it must be healthy, the French are quick to
point out the health advantages of dirt, or at least the health advantages of tolerating dirt.”

“Hydrotheraphy - a 1980 book on Kneipp therapy used by West German doctors recommends
as therapy for a patient with low blood pressure to have, on Mondays, an early bath of the
upper body, a morning knee shower alternating between hot and cold water, an afternoon
arm shower, and a walk in fifteen inches of water (known in Germany as “Kneipping”) in
the evening; on Tuesdays, an early bath of the lower body, an arm with rosemary in the
morning, an alternating hot and cold footbath in the afternoon, and Kneipping in the
evening, and so on for the rest of the week, except Sunday.”

“Another British excess - concern about their bowels. A daily bowel action as almost a
religious necessity.”
Narsrim2009-03-18 05:56:22
Now we know why Shiri gets so cranky, he's not had his daily bowel action of almost religious necessity!
Shiri2009-03-18 06:02:53
dry.gif