You think I'm a freakin' ADD clown? I'm so heart-broken... so I'm going to

VOTE SHIRI

O wait.

I believe it is you that don't know what you are talking about. -pat-

....... he's not pro-joker. That's what he's saying.

Good grief. Seriously people. Are you EXPECTING him to tell you "I'm a scum, lynch me!" No? Then why are you acting so surprised that people are voting for him when this doesn't happen.

Can you read? Honest question here. You might call them "devil scratchings" or something, I dunno. The Joker has already dealt with me. He no longer cares about me. It doesn't matter how many are left alive: as long as all of them are no longer vanilla, he wins. Therefore no, he has no vested interest in me insofar as I am no longer vanilla. Killing me or leaving me alive, it's irrelevant to him now.

But he is, by value of being non-vanilla.

I'm not saying his role says: you win with the joker.

So he's not pro-joker then.

Starting to think yours might, though.

You guys are boggling me with your logic. I'm just gonna give up trying to reason it through, and go with my gut.

Can we get a votecount for those of us who have not been up all night watching Shiri and Daganev catfight?

Ok, after having gotten some sleep, I realize that I was completely missing the point.

I had been thinking that the joker needed non-vanilla townies to be alive to win, when in reality, he just needs them un-vanillaed or dead.

Although I dislike the fact that Jack came out with his alteration so suddenly and without any provocation, I'm going to have to say that I'm not ready to kill him off just yet, and lose another vanilla in the process. Not that anybody is willing to test his "I'm a bomb" claim at this point in the game. Nobody wants to die since it's only day 1!

Unvote

The joker wanting abnormals to stay alive (non-useful abnormals that is) is tied in with wanting no vanillas left. The more abnormals are left alive, the more "fodder" there is to get in the way of the town. And that's not even accounting for the possibility that he's lying. It seems like the joker might well agree with me on that possibility, and is hoping he's an SK or mafia (or in fact knows he's an SK or mafia...we don't know whether the joker knows what his results are or not, right?)

By useful I mean useful ones to us like a cop.

The joker has to know what his results are, because he has a chance to fail and if he didn't know the results, he'd just end up having to waste nights infecting the same people to make sure that he didn't miss.

Also, Casilu said that the joker sees his handiwork. Said so in the first post of the sign-up thread.

I think Shiri is referring to the role that the now-non-vanilla gets, rather than the success.

As for the Shiri vs. Daganev thing, I think both of you have valid points. I don't think either of you are the Joker/anti-town at this point of time.

@ Tekora & Caerulo: Yeah I meant does he know if it's an SK or a bomb or a cop or what? If he does it makes me even more suspicious of Daganev defending Jack like that.

Regardless of Jack's personal win condition, I don't see how he can be anything better than neutral for the town if he really is a bomb. If a townee lynches him, townee dies; if non-townee kills me, non-townee dies. If he's lying though, then it's because he's actually anti-town and is trying to scare people from lynching him. (Though I do find it strange he roleclaimed right away.)

I don't have a strong sense of anyone as scum at the moment. So I see no difference between lynching someone randomly or lynching Jack with chance of someone dying if he's telling the truth. Either way one vanilla may die. The benefit to doing the latter is if Jack is lying. (It may be Jack has a win condition that he wins if lynched, but claiming to be a bomb doesn't seem like a good strategy for that, so I find it unlikely).

So, my gut says to vote for Jack, so my votes stays.

Well if Jack is pro town, he'll be here to help us figure out who is the real joker. I doubt Jack wants to be lynched. Claiming to have a bomb strapped to your chest is a funny way of getting yourself killed. I have a few people who I'm suspicious of. I'm not voting for any of them yet, because I want to see how they act today.
My vote's still on Renthur until I find a good reason to change. Jack: Kiriwe seems suspicious all the time. She always seems on edge. She must have had a dream of killing a puppy, and it haunts her. She's not quite so suspicious in this game though, which makes me highly suspicious of her. (I am so kidding)

I don't want to get too off course here, but here is a random quote I got from a mafia site:



Just so you know, and don't start actually going out and killing the Mafia people who live near you.