I've been playing this game for quite a while. However, out of the many wonderful aspects of the game, I feel that quests are the most overlooked and ignored, except when it's time to whine about TBC and shield quests. So I've been thinking. What makes a quest good, and which quests are good. Similarily, what quests are bad, and which quests are bad. (Protip. If they're practically never done, they're generally bad).

So, I'm thinking. Quests can be divided up into several aspects. Hunting, puzzles, searching, communication and reward. I'll elaborate on these, while giving examples of quests who do it badly, and quests who do it well.

Hunting: Here are all the things you have to gather. It can be anything from hunting Cats for Lauk, to influencing Hyfae for the Jar, to picking up guano for fertilizers. Hunting is about doing a repetitive act to gather enough of a resource for the quest to continue. Hunting should preferably never be limited by spawn rate. An example of poor "hunting" can be found in Xion, where you need more than one round of spawns to continue. An example of good hunting is Clarramore Skygardens, where you can get all you need without having to wait for respawn. An example of miserable hunting would be the UV, but we'll get to that later.

Puzzles: Puzzles are mastermind, sudoku, etc. The things that test your brain-power and affinity for logical solutions. Puzzles add variety to quests, however they should never be put in merely to be time-consuming. An example of this, and thus an example of poor "puzzle" is Zoaka, where you have to do the same kind of puzzle four times in a row. Most other puzzles are done well.

Searching: Searching is interacting with your environment. The puzzles that aren't brain games, and what you can do in a MUD like Lusternia. These are done well when they aren't obvious how to do, yet aren't impossible to figure out. Things like Stewartsville and Delport rely almost entirely on these puzzles. They are generally done well, however they do have one problem. Nowhere are you told that some objects hidden in the room description can be interacted with. Beyond this problem though, I don't know how to analyze this aspect, except to say that I like it where I've seen it.

Communication: A quest should always give you all you need to know about information, and nothing more. The Kephera queen quest is awful at this, because the only way to know how to grow loti, to raise queen Neferti, is to ask queen Neferti on how to grow loti. On the other hand, we have the Grandmother Scorpion quest, where you're told step by step what to do.

Reward: A quest should always be worth your time, and this is something that Lusternian quests fail miserably at. With the exception of the village quests (and maybe Clarramore), there really is no reason to do a quest for the gold reward. Everyone can bash up those same gold rewards through Krokani and Aslaran. When it comes to experience, the amount is miserable, if any. If those are the only rewards, they need to be as worthwhile as that casual hunting would give you. Otherwise, unique, useful rewards work. Such as the Hand quests.

These are the five things to keep in mind when designing a quest. I'll go more indepth into quests later and see how they relate to the five earlier points. Little yet, but it does give an idea what to keep in mind when designing a quest. Because... more than anything else. Quests should be fun. Not tedious, but fun.

-applause-

Good post!

I just want to comment that reward thing. You get honours lines for most challenging quests when you do them for the first time. If the additional reward were higher than the work needed to be done (or even as high), the same people would be doing the quests over and over again and it would be very hard for the new people who need much more time to even figure out where to begin with. (See Stewartsville, where you can get 5000 sovereigns in ten minutes. It's practically always done.)

And the experience is quite decent, in my opinion, at least for the village quests that lowbies can do too. I made my way to the 50th level by mostly questing. You can gain two or even three levels with a village quest when you are at your 20-something-levels.

Very well written.

I would like to add though one thing I find on the hunting part. Stupid quests to where one key mob can be killed and the quest cannot be completed.

Already covered.

Anyway, for now I'd like to analyze the quests according to the five criterias I've set.

I'll start with the quest I like the most, and which I find to be the best of all Lusternian quests. The Clarramore Skygardens.

Hunting: This is solved exceptionally well in Clarramore. There is an abundance of creatures to influence that you use for other parts of the quest. And you need to hunt exactly one round of spawn of creatures, no more and no less. You are never limited by having to wait for things to respawn. Unless, of course, someone else interferes. But that's no fault of the game design.

Puzzles: There are none.

Searching: This aspect is fun, because it uses room descriptions in a completely new way. At least, I haven't seen it done elsewhere. The objects you need to find aren't too hard to find either, although there are a few rooms where you'd think there would be hidden containers, even though there isn't. I personally prefer not having to probe every single object just to see if it can be interacted with.

Communication: The quest is pretty good at communication. You are told exactly what you need, where to get it, and how to get it. The only thing that gives it a slightly lower score is when you try to aquire a specific ingredient. From what I remember, you're not even hinted at what syntax to use to get this ingredient, despite the location of it being obvious.

Reward: Where to begin, where to begin. This quest is filled with rewards. You get tons of minor gold rewards while you work towards the honour, and on the way you have several items you get which can be used in designs. It's a designers dream to do this quest, because you can have so much fun with the rewards.

Improvement: I really don't see how you can improve this quest, except for being clearer on how to obtain that one ingredient. It's incredibly well made.

Agreed, love the Clarramore quest.

Edit: Question. Why is this in Ideas?

No idea actually. I wasn't quite sure where to put a "what makes quests good, how can they be improved" thread.

What is the The Clarramore Skygardens?

Meaning, is this an aetherbubble, is it in a location that is open to all people? is it restricted by RP (like can both celest and mag reasoanble do the quest?)

It's an area in the north mountains, pretty much open to everyone.

You know, I think I still don't know where the border between sernwilde and the mountains are

Umm, no? (Unless I'm missing something, which is quite possible.)

You wanted the gold rewards to be higher and I was of the opinion that they needn't be any higher because that would just make it harder for people who still don't have the honours to get them, for the people who know how to do the quests keep doing them if the rewards are good.

edit: Though if you referred to my comment about Stewartsville, yes, you said that village quests can be worth doing for the reward, but don't you see any issue there, if they are -too- worth doing?

edit2: Clarramore quest(s) and the whole place are awesome, so yay for that!

No, I want the gold and/or experience reward for certain quests to be higher. The Clarramore and village quests already have a nice payoff. Grandmother scorpion has not. Compare 10k in 20 min, to 10k in 2 hours.

Just don't go down in the mountains. If I remember correctly, it's an up exit or something else.

Now I come to the quest that "inspired" me to make this thread, and makes me feel that whomever came up with this should be dragged out into the street and have all his limbs shot of with a shotgun. Raising the Kephera Queens.

Hunting: You've got to be kidding me. You have to spend tons of time looking for spores that are randomly picked up by monsters, then search out monsters, probe them to figure out their colour and bring them in to hatch kids, and hope that the next is a female, and if she isn't you have to go through all that work again. If she is you have to hunt down other creatures until she's old enough, do some running and then... then comes the part where you just gotta hope that she'll survive long enough while you try to raise the other Queens, because there's almost nothing you can do to protect her. It is ridiculous in the fact that you can ruin days worth of work in a few minutes.

Puzzles: I think there is one involved in raising the Psychic Web, but the Queens can't stay alive long enough so I have no idea if there is one. No comment.

Searching: None as far as I know.

Communication: None. Really, there is no information on how to raise the queens given by anyone whatsoever. You either have to do tons of random and unlogical guesswork, or get the help of someone who has already completed certain parts of the quests. The middle part is so-so with info, but otherwise it'd be impossible to fail more in the communication aspect.

Reward: The only reward that I have seen, except getting to learn the various queens and what they are like. The gold reward for each loti object is 500 gold, which is just ridiculous and in no way worth the annoyance you have to suffer to get them.

Improvement: Deletion is an option. An option I'd suggest the admin strongly consider, because as is, the quest is moronic. If not, it's going to need some serious readjustments. There needs to be a way to keep the Queens alive, because the wardens are practically worthless, and can only be made by killing Krakens, which most people can't handle. The amount of loti needed for all the aspects of the quest needs to be lowered, AND the amount of loti and beetles found in the UV needs to be increased. Quests are supposed to be fun, not a hassle. There also needs to be a much higher chance of getting a female from the eggs when the queens are dead. The most important part remains though. It is WAY too easy to ruin days worth of work in a few minutes. That MUST change. Make them have to do a counter-quest or something to make the queens vulnerable or something. As long as it takes effort and is something that you have a chance at preventing. Until that time, it's impossible to give this quest anything but an F-.

Haha, this reminds me of the Facility quest. At least this has flavor.

PS: There is a way to keep Queens from being killed.

If you get far enough through the quest they become invulnerable.

Only certain queens can be made invulnerable, the queen that makes the elixir to make them such can not be made invulnerable. Elixir takes lots of loti and bashing.