So, I've heard it generally stated that Crow sucks and Stag is much, much better. But I've been looking through the Scrying Pool skill lists at both skillsets... and Crow seems like it would be more useful. I see... maybe three, four skills that I'd use in general in Stag. And the instakill in Crow seems a heck of a lot easier to pull of than the instakill in Stag. Haegl, caw, and swoop, versus trying to get someone below 1/4 health. Flight, poison resistance, the ability to track and drop... all seem more useful to me than slightly faster balance/equilibrium recovery and parading. I barely use health potions as it is, much less a medicine bag. The only useful abilities in stag seem to be Ancestral Curse and the totem.

So, why is it that Stag is generally regarded as being better than Crow? I can see Night being better than Crow, but why Stag?

EDIT: Sorry if this is a necro of an old topic... I couldn't find them if they are.

Stag also has medicinebag, which is fantastic. Crow is underrated, and yes gore is pretty sad, but stag isn't bad.

EDIT: Oh, you totally underrated medicinebag, I didn't see you include it. At higher levels of bashing, and PK, you sip/apply ALL THE TIME. Medicinebag cuts down on pressure. Nice skill.

It's not the amount of good skills that counts, it's how good the skills in question are.

I don't know all too much about Stag, but Crow has its good points if you're Blacktalon. ESPECIALLY if you go Runes.

Get them in saplock, use double haegl three or four times. Treebane or shove, then swoop. The hard part is keeping them in saplock.

Oh yeah, stagstomp isn't bad either, forgot that one.

I personally really, really like Crow. I haven't played Stag myself, but I find a bunch of ways to make Crow useful.

People who are saying Stag is better than Crow probably mean for warriors when comparing the two. I'd imagine Stag would generally have more uses than Crow for warrior sorts, since warriors can't create trees to perch in and playing with different elevations might be more difficult to work in for a warrior. Druids are about keeping you messed up even if you aren't in the exact same spot as they are, meaning being in the trees or flying are both options to a druid. Warriors tend to want to be in the same place, same elevation as their opponents, which limits Crow more than Stag would for them I think.

Though, I am kind of talking out of my rear when it comes to Stag and Warrior-related things since I've never played either, so take my words with a grain of salt.

Yeah, I could see medicine bag being useful on Astral or so... as a monk, I have level 7 health regen (garu, Harmony, Mercy), so I really don't need health potion. I regen... 2k health per tic, basically.

Stag isn't /bad/, per say... it just seems overrated as a skill as a whole. Honestly... Curse, Totem, and Stomp are really the only useful skills, it seems. Oh boy, Stagform lets me move 4 rooms per second instead of 2! *coughs in Adroitness and Ooshphet's collective direction*

It seems like Crow gives a more viable kill for Druids... Hartstone only really have Gore and Thornrend to work with... plus maybe Death Prophecy or Eternal Sleep. No real viable kill method...

How much more health does medicine bag restore than a health potion?

Nyir, I think you're right. I agree that Stag would be better for warriors. A warrior could probably make StagStomp absolute hell. Although, if you're in a position to get Stag, get Moon instead... As for Druids, Crow seems more useful.

What would Ledah choose? I think he'd be a Crow kind of guy.

Definitely have to agree.

Also, touché.

I still have to sip on (liked) Astral as a lobo psymet ascendant...anyway, medicinebag also works on deepwounds, not just health.

Hmm, didn't know it affected deep wounds. Well, chalk one more potentially useful skill up in Stag. Is it necessary anywhere besides on Astral?

It's not necessary anywhere, it's a better health potion essentially for 50 touches, the size of a normal vial of health.

You'd basically want to use it anywhere where you're getting a lot of damage.

Medicinebag- VERY powerful health elixir
Stagtotem- VERY nice passive health/mana healer (heals above max occasionally), each tic cures an affliction
Sacrifice- Great for helping others bash, gives them half your h/m/e so long as you're in the same area
Ancestralcurse- Has some very nice afflictions but high on power
Ringwalk- Eh, good with multiple staggies.
Stagstomp- VERY nice synergy with saplock.
Lightning/Swiftstripes- Use for bashing, etc
Trueheart/Greenman- Greenman for regen, Trueheart helps resist forced 'unenemy all' and protects against beckon
Gore- Good for killstealing or impaling to hinder
Staghide- Cold DMP > Poison DMP, usually

All skills that I have regularly used as a Druid, all of them very useful. I can't say the same for Crow. Most of Crow's stuff is just flavour or largely useless- Stag synergizes very, very well with Druids.

Hmmmm... what would you say is useless in Crow? I can think of a couple things... Trickster, for one.

Some of the newer abilities might be able to synergize with saplock, you'd have to talk to Xenthos about them. (CarrionStench, mainly)

Deathmask, Crowsfeet have no practical combat use like the Stag facepaints. Hoisting you'll mainly use in Etherglom raids to drop people at Nexi/avatars (and even then as a Druid they might be able to squish you. Unsure of what perspective you're coming from). Yeah, trickster, too. All the time you spend eyepecking them is just time you're not spending working towards a saplock or building wounds. Crowform is neat but has no practical warrior application.

The mirrorskills in Crow are basically all a lot worse than the skills in Stag. Let me grab some quick lists.

# Crowtongue Flavorskill, but nice.
# Cloak Good protection, gives flight and ability to talk with undead, sweet.
# Perch Better cling
# Bonding Bonding to a totem
# Birdseye Nice scry, but only in specific circumstances, cause it requires you to fly.
# Crowsfeet Eh, you can see Dreamweavers enter
# Squall A rather good skill, basically it gusts everyone in the room in a random direction, blocked by big size though.
# Crowsnest Really, really sucky. Additionally to the normal power and all you have to spend, it also requires a constant upkeep of corpses.
# Spiderweb Not too bad, when I tested it once it was about 33%. could have been changed meanwhile, though.
# Decoy Useless
# Regurgitate Useless. I think it was changed to take balance, again. And even if not, you can use it 15 times as opposed to Medbag, and can't use to apply.
# Trickster Useless
# Scavenger Specific uses, but generally can be ignored.
# Bonenose Not too bad.
# NestReturn Neat skill
# Eyepeck Generally useless. Really, really fast in crowform, but you have no reason to keep eyepecking, since you don't need eyes to rub enchants in sap.
# Deathmask Not too bad, but you have to kill for it to be useful, heh
# Spew Haven't played around with it, but it sounds really nice
# DarkRebirth Really nice
# Spy Flavor skill
# CarrionStench Seems to be really nice.
# Disease Is really nice, I think it has a chance to afflict with 2 affs, too.
# NestCall Useless
# Crowform Really nice

Naaaoh, Stag
# Staghide Nice, but nothing does cold. *g*
# Greenman No clue, might be nice after bashing.
# Bonding Blah
# Ringwalk Weak, from what I heard
# StagStomp Awesome for keeping people in sap.
# Trueheart Nice for influencing.
# Bellow Used to be really nice, I guess it might be nice in groupcombat, but else.
# Pacing Uh, well, limited use.
# Parade Nice against other demesners.
# Bolting Really useful if you don't feel like getting jumped.
# Lightning More speed is always good
# TotemReturn Nice
# Headbutt Eh
# Swiftstripes More speed is always good.
# Medicinebag Really, really, really nice.
# Sacrifice Useeeless for yourself!
# StagTotem Really sweet, I loved this for bashing astral, continued aff and health curing
# Ancestralcurse I heard it synergizes nicely with sap, what with giving recklessness and impatience and stuff.
# Stagform Sweet, additional regen, too.

Hrm, why is Trickster useless? Can't you force feed poisoned food?

Seeing as you can only lace with a few poisons, you might as well go for a sap kill. Less expensive.

Ah, I see.