Parabollus2009-04-21 01:39:01
Well, I'm sure many of you have heard of the genre of PC game called the "real-time strategy" game, or RTS. (And yes, I know RTSs are making inroads onto consoles as well, with titles such as Halo Wars.) The basic premise of such titles is that as opposed to turn-based strategy games, where players take turns individually, in a typical RTS everything happens simultaneously, as players all make their decisions without having to wait for their turn to do so, and thus things happen when players want them to - everything happens at once, in "real time," hence the name of the genre. Thus, there is as much quick-thinking think-on-your-feet action involved as there is in-depth strategy planning.
Now, if there's turn-based strategy, and real-time strategy, what would be the next logical step?
Meta-time strategy, of course, at least according to game developers Hazardous Software. And what is meta-time strategy, you ask?
Two words: Time Travel. One word: Achron (the title of their game).
In short, Hazardous Software wants to create a new genre of strategy game where you get to travel through time and do stuff. How does that work? Well, check out this Rock, Paper, Shotgun article on Achron. Go and read it for a bit, and watch the embedded videos. I can wait.
*time travels to the future where you've read the article* Okay, good. Now to discuss.
To say this is a very cool and innovative idea is an understatement. But the big question is: can Hazardous Software pull this off and make it fun? See, I've had trouble with real-time strategy games - I find them fun, but frustrating, especially in multiplayer situations where those with higher brainpower than me easily trounce lesser-evolved sentients with their innate memorizations of tech trees, ninja fingers of base construction and unit production, and some kind of multi-core center in their brain that allows them to multitask so efficiently and find it fun. RTSs are pretty difficult and complex as it is, even in single-player, with all that you have to juggle in real time.
So is adding time travel really such a good idea, in the long run? With all that you have to juggle in the present in RTSs, is adding another layer of complexity really going to help make it more fun? Are any gamers, even die-hard RTS fans, really going to be able to enjoy having to keep track of multiple time lines in order to be able to win? Sure, hardcore gamers like their complexity, but there is such a thing as too much of a good thing.
Well, if your head hasn't spontaneously combusted, please comment!
Now, if there's turn-based strategy, and real-time strategy, what would be the next logical step?
Meta-time strategy, of course, at least according to game developers Hazardous Software. And what is meta-time strategy, you ask?
Two words: Time Travel. One word: Achron (the title of their game).
In short, Hazardous Software wants to create a new genre of strategy game where you get to travel through time and do stuff. How does that work? Well, check out this Rock, Paper, Shotgun article on Achron. Go and read it for a bit, and watch the embedded videos. I can wait.
*time travels to the future where you've read the article* Okay, good. Now to discuss.
To say this is a very cool and innovative idea is an understatement. But the big question is: can Hazardous Software pull this off and make it fun? See, I've had trouble with real-time strategy games - I find them fun, but frustrating, especially in multiplayer situations where those with higher brainpower than me easily trounce lesser-evolved sentients with their innate memorizations of tech trees, ninja fingers of base construction and unit production, and some kind of multi-core center in their brain that allows them to multitask so efficiently and find it fun. RTSs are pretty difficult and complex as it is, even in single-player, with all that you have to juggle in real time.
So is adding time travel really such a good idea, in the long run? With all that you have to juggle in the present in RTSs, is adding another layer of complexity really going to help make it more fun? Are any gamers, even die-hard RTS fans, really going to be able to enjoy having to keep track of multiple time lines in order to be able to win? Sure, hardcore gamers like their complexity, but there is such a thing as too much of a good thing.
Well, if your head hasn't spontaneously combusted, please comment!
Shamarah2009-04-21 01:57:32
That's so awesome.
Shiri2009-04-21 01:59:36
I posted a little about this after finding it following the GDC coverage a couple weeks ago, it looks great. I'm pretty sure I have an understanding of the basic mechanics and strategy of having time travel involved, and they have several mechanics in place that make it easier (the "time fold" thing seems to help by giving you a window to react before changes take place.) I also suspect it won't be exactly as complex as similar RTS games in other aspects, specifically to avoid overloading people; I hope the races are still diverse though. A major factor will probably be how easily newbies pick it up - they claim "very easy", but I'm skeptical.
At any rate, much of the complexity in RTS games seems to be emergent - I've been amazed at exactly how much raw data people can extrapolate from games like Starcraft. I always sucked at starcraft, principally because I never got a hand on the macro, but with modern UIs and such that shouldn't really be as much of a problem for Achron.
Anyway, even if it doesn't turn out that awesome it's a great innovation to have actual time travel. It's just "cheated" like 99% of the time. Maybe it'll be replicated to better success elsewhere.
At any rate, much of the complexity in RTS games seems to be emergent - I've been amazed at exactly how much raw data people can extrapolate from games like Starcraft. I always sucked at starcraft, principally because I never got a hand on the macro, but with modern UIs and such that shouldn't really be as much of a problem for Achron.
Anyway, even if it doesn't turn out that awesome it's a great innovation to have actual time travel. It's just "cheated" like 99% of the time. Maybe it'll be replicated to better success elsewhere.
Richter2009-04-21 04:27:38
My brain just exploded. Looks neat.
Daganev2009-04-21 05:34:50
I may have missed it, but did he explain what happens to your resources if your units get killed 2 minutes before they were created?
Shiri2009-04-21 05:47:14
QUOTE (daganev @ Apr 21 2009, 06:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I may have missed it, but did he explain what happens to your resources if your units get killed 2 minutes before they were created?
Logically, nothing, right?
EDIT: rest of post was completely wrong and nonsensical, but I still think nothing happens
Daganev2009-04-21 14:52:35
No, I would think that you get your resources back, because you "never built them"
Shiri2009-04-21 14:57:48
QUOTE (daganev @ Apr 21 2009, 03:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
No, I would think that you get your resources back, because you "never built them"
You did build them though. You built them, and then they went into the past and died. The fact that they died in the past doesn't preclude their building in the present. Only if you destroyed the factory would it do anything.
Daganev2009-04-21 14:59:48
QUOTE (Shiri @ Apr 21 2009, 07:57 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You did build them though. You built them, and then they went into the past and died. The fact that they died in the past doesn't preclude their building in the present. Only if you destroyed the factory would it do anything.
It does actually.
When the time wave hits, your units will either not exist at the point after you created them, thus you will gain your resources back or... they will be constructed since you just constructed them.
That's the whole point of timewaves.
Shiri2009-04-21 15:47:47
QUOTE (daganev @ Apr 21 2009, 03:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
It does actually.
When the time wave hits, your units will either not exist at the point after you created them, thus you will gain your resources back or... they will be constructed since you just constructed them.
That's the whole point of timewaves.
When the time wave hits, your units will either not exist at the point after you created them, thus you will gain your resources back or... they will be constructed since you just constructed them.
That's the whole point of timewaves.
Huh? I know what the point of timewaves is. But the units dying has nothing to do with them being created. Sure, it would be STUPID to build units that are just going to die, but there's no reason you can't if you insist, which is what the timewaves will continue to propagate.
Richter2009-04-22 01:02:21
Hello time paradoxes. Reminds me of the logic used on Lost recently.
Daganev2009-04-22 01:14:05
Thats the point of time waves! You don't have paradoxes.
Xavius2009-04-22 01:40:21
QUOTE (Shiri @ Apr 21 2009, 10:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Huh? I know what the point of timewaves is. But the units dying has nothing to do with them being created. Sure, it would be STUPID to build units that are just going to die, but there's no reason you can't if you insist, which is what the timewaves will continue to propagate.
I think the more relevant question that Dag's logic would raise is what would happen 25 seconds after you send a unit back 30 seconds into the past. Can a unit defend itself? If a unit fails to defend itself when your opponent sends things back in time as well, what happens to the soldier who is still firing bullets?
Shiri2009-04-22 02:33:35
QUOTE (Xavius @ Apr 22 2009, 02:40 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I think the more relevant question that Dag's logic would raise is what would happen 25 seconds after you send a unit back 30 seconds into the past. Can a unit defend itself? If a unit fails to defend itself when your opponent sends things back in time as well, what happens to the soldier who is still firing bullets?
I am not sure what you mean by "itself", but units can be "cloned" and coexist temporarily - I think the clones take chronoenergy to manipulate and die on timewave procs, it was mentioned somewhere on that site.
Shiri2010-07-23 08:33:31
*necro*
So it turns out that for a while now you've been able to preorder this game from their site and download the alpha build. I'm having a hell of a time trying to understand how to play, the third tutorial mission is pwning me. I think I have to keep reusing the time period in which my units are in the centre of the map. There's a one-way teleporter from the centre to the North and the South, but if I try to make the units move from North to South they get there too slow to safe my base. So I have to teleport the units, take out the attackers, then go back in time and teleport them to the other location. If so I guess that means my opponent is doing the same thing with attacking forces.
...it's interesting, though! And it has a multiplayer component. If anyone wants to try it out, let me know. 30 american money.
So it turns out that for a while now you've been able to preorder this game from their site and download the alpha build. I'm having a hell of a time trying to understand how to play, the third tutorial mission is pwning me. I think I have to keep reusing the time period in which my units are in the centre of the map. There's a one-way teleporter from the centre to the North and the South, but if I try to make the units move from North to South they get there too slow to safe my base. So I have to teleport the units, take out the attackers, then go back in time and teleport them to the other location. If so I guess that means my opponent is doing the same thing with attacking forces.
...it's interesting, though! And it has a multiplayer component. If anyone wants to try it out, let me know. 30 american money.