Monks vs. monks

by Unknown

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Charune2009-04-16 20:51:53
QUOTE (Celina @ Apr 16 2009, 03:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Sorry, bad wording. Envoy consensus?

Was a regular report.
Unknown2009-04-16 20:59:20
Hey guyz, parroting monk-related lusternian memes (especially if you're a noncom or self-professed 'getting less addicted to lusternia' person) over and over isn't gonna get you anywhere.

Aside from that, the disembowel change was nerfed and rightly so. Desitrus already mentioned why.

There's pretty much no shrugging of venoms once you're up against Nekotai after they hit you 3+ times with poison-giving moves/mods. I recently fought Sidd without choking him and I got boned after a few helpings of the slit/slick combo (which I cured out of with green) and occasional severspines, but didn't cure out of it fast enough to sip antidote sad.gif

I agree that the heart flutter thing is pretty bad, especially with the soon-to-be-nerfed beastweb, and when I was an envoy, it was indeed on the table when it came to the monk report.
Shaddus2009-04-16 21:04:22
QUOTE (Charune @ Apr 16 2009, 02:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
This is a BUG. Please BUG it.

I think what he means is that you can set aliases for your katas to target different body parts entirely, and use them on the fly to get out of people stancing/parrying.
Unknown2009-04-16 21:18:32
QUOTE (Shaddus Mes'ard @ Apr 16 2009, 05:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I think what he means is that you can set aliases for your katas to target different body parts entirely, and use them on the fly to get out of people stancing/parrying.

Sounded to me like he could do whatever he wanted by having Aliases to modify the form in mid execution in order to have perfect control over his attacks and react on his toes while maintaining blindingly fast offense.
Desitrus2009-04-16 21:27:05
Hi.

Here's what people are seeing: Insanely fast monks.

Here's what's causing it: 11 form katas still providing a speed bonus beyond race and weapon speed.

Here's what fixes it: A damn floor on kata speeds and REMOVING THE SPEED BONUS FROM CHAINED KATA. Aeon tarot has one. So should forms. Congratulations, balance.

Here's the number of times I have suggested directly to administration this fix: 3

Here's the response: We're lowering the speed of chained katas. This has happened twice. Once with Roark and once with Charune. Now I've said it again.

Here's what needs to happen: Removed and a floor put on Kata speed.

I also pointed out on test to a Divine before any momentum monks went live that severspine was too strong of an affliction to be in ANYONE'S arsenal as a guaranteed affliction.

Thanks, bye.

EDIT: Kialkarkea is correct. What Isuka was doing was this:

KATA PERFORM MONKEYFACE JANGOFETT1 JANGOFETT1 JANGOFETT1 JANGOFETT1 JANGOFETT1 JANGOFETT1 JANGOFETT1 JANGOFETT1 JANGOFETT1 JANGOFETT1 JANGOFETT1

Then doing this as he progressed through forms:

MACRO: F1 kata develop jangofett1 action 1 nekai head left;kata develop jangofett1 action 2 spronghai gut right
MACRO: F2 kata develop jangofett1 action 1 raze left;kata develop jangofett2 action 2 nekai head right

Get it?
Vhaas2009-04-16 21:39:45
Wow. He really could bot his battles.

I need to get rid of this class.
Charune2009-04-16 21:40:14
Adjusting forms on the fly while you're using them is a bug. Hopefully it'll be fixed soon!

Desitrus: The speed bonus is going to be reduced. Skive, etc are also going to be removed in favor of razing and lunging type moves. Autokata will be sufficiently neutered by this.
Shaddus2009-04-16 21:43:38
QUOTE (Charune @ Apr 16 2009, 04:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Adjusting forms on the fly while you're using them is a bug. Hopefully it'll be fixed soon!

Wait. So if my forms target a certain body part, and I keep hitting parry/stance, it's a bug that I'm able to change them mid battle and hit a different body part?

Damn, that sucks.
Charune2009-04-16 21:44:44
QUOTE (Shaddus Mes'ard @ Apr 16 2009, 05:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Wait. So if my forms target a certain body part, and I keep hitting parry/stance, it's a bug that I'm able to change them mid battle and hit a different body part?

Damn, that sucks.

No, as I've said, if you name a form killperson, and you're in autokata using the form killperson over and over again.. and midway through you edit killperson to do something else.... that's a bug. Switching to killpersonB or killpersonC is fine.
Shamarah2009-04-16 21:47:20
QUOTE (Charune @ Apr 16 2009, 05:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Adjusting forms on the fly while you're using them is a bug. Hopefully it'll be fixed soon!

Desitrus: The speed bonus is going to be reduced. Skive, etc are also going to be removed in favor of razing and lunging type moves. Autokata will be sufficiently neutered by this.


I'm still totally bewildered by the fact that you don't just remove the chain speed bonus altogether.
Furien2009-04-16 21:50:37
Yeah, that would probably be the best. It's what most people have been asking for the entire time. Complete removal, not just yet another reduction.
Charune2009-04-16 21:52:34
QUOTE (Shamarah @ Apr 16 2009, 05:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'm still totally bewildered by the fact that you don't just remove the chain speed bonus altogether.

I believe the idea is that it's a small bonus for being so set in what you're going to do - you can't deviate without penalty, etc. I see that someone's managed to bypass that little restriction without bugging it, so hopefully that'll get fixed shortly. With an end to skive-type moves, I don't see how it will be an issue anymore.
Desitrus2009-04-16 21:56:30
QUOTE (Charune @ Apr 16 2009, 04:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I believe the idea is that it's a small bonus for being so set in what you're going to do - you can't deviate without penalty, etc. I see that someone's managed to bypass that little restriction without bugging it, so hopefully that'll get fixed shortly. With an end to skive-type moves, I don't see how it will be an issue anymore.


Because it still allows things like chest pain to be given at an interval that is impossible to cure without a kata floor or removing said speed bonus.
Charune2009-04-16 21:58:38
QUOTE (Desitrus @ Apr 16 2009, 05:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Because it still allows things like chest pain to be given at an interval that is impossible to cure without a kata floor or removing said speed bonus.

Don't think it would be the case anymore, but we'll keep that in mind and ensure it is no longer possible to give it in this way with autokata when the next revamp goes in.
Daereth2009-04-16 22:03:17
Why everytime I switch Archetype people want to nerf me?
Narsrim2009-04-16 22:10:28
QUOTE (Celina @ Apr 16 2009, 03:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
It's about as severe as the Ninjakari issue. Narsrim was landing them left and right. What the envoys I've talked to have told me is that monk changes are being rejected because of the monk report looming on the horizon.

Sorry, bad wording. Envoy consensus?


Narsrim was also using beast web to satisfy the prone requirement, which is what made it almost impossible to avoid.
Celina2009-04-16 22:27:42
QUOTE (Narsrim @ Apr 16 2009, 05:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Narsrim was also using beast web to satisfy the prone requirement, which is what made it almost impossible to avoid.


Don't need beastweb. I don't think we need to get into a discussion about how easy it is for a monk to prone someone and keep them prone.
Jack2009-04-16 22:33:58
QUOTE (Daereth @ Apr 16 2009, 11:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Why everytime I switch Archetype people want to nerf me?

Why do you keep switching to archetypes that people want to nerf?
Isuka2009-04-16 22:34:38
QUOTE (Desitrus @ Apr 16 2009, 02:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
EDIT: Kialkarkea is correct. What Isuka was doing was this:

KATA PERFORM MONKEYFACE JANGOFETT1 JANGOFETT1 JANGOFETT1 JANGOFETT1 JANGOFETT1 JANGOFETT1 JANGOFETT1 JANGOFETT1 JANGOFETT1 JANGOFETT1 JANGOFETT1

Then doing this as he progressed through forms:

MACRO: F1 kata develop jangofett1 action 1 nekai head left;kata develop jangofett1 action 2 spronghai gut right
MACRO: F2 kata develop jangofett1 action 1 raze left;kata develop jangofett2 action 2 nekai head right


Basically, yes. Although, I didn't have to change anything with macros. I had combat logic written in to do this for me based on numerous things. I had one macro that started combat, and one to kill it if I needed to run for some reason, and that was generally enough. Easy button.

Edit: the surprising thing was how easy it really is to do as a Nekotai. The combat is incredibly linear as it is, all you have to do is track momentum and target's state for a few items.
Isuka2009-04-16 22:40:36
I'd really be in support of getting rid of chained kata speed bonuses. I don't understand why it doesn't work the same way as Warrior maneuvers: you set up the attacks to have it use and then pass to it the arguments (such as target and bodypart).

This would also help with insta-locks by forcing the monk to focus on a single body part with each form to get a form mod bonus, or sacrifice the bonuses to target multiple limbs at once.